There is an economic factor that has to be considered.

A lethal injection costs how much? 100.00 bucks being a high figure? Compared to 25k or more per year to house an inmate.........I heard somewhere it was like 80k but I used 25 as a a starting point.

I believe where proof is irrefutable, that the death penalty shoul dbe carried out as swiftly as possible.

Some of the murdering, raping scum that still walk this earth in the friendly confines of a prison are wasting their time and ours. Plus, they have it better off inside a prison than out.

I'm all in favor of public beheadings if it means my kids will be safer.

Don't kill or rape others and you will be just fine.

F*ck em!

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Maybe that one can be you! I know it's a stretch for you but those 100 murderers will be in jail not free think about it.

THats what the 10 appeals are for.........time to prove it was a mistake before you get the chair.. Thats why I don't fight against those appeals rights...becasue the system isn't perfect.

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1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

All those appeals cost approximately double the cost of keeping the SOB in prison for the rest of his life. Whether you believe it or not, giving them life without the possibility of parole costs significantly less money, over the long haul, and it also eliminates the risk of killing a man who has been wrongly convicted.

If you think that there are no wrongful convictions of minorites in certain southern states, you had better think again.

Appeals are rarely for reintroduction of evidence. They are primarily to ensure all appropriate rules were followed at trial. Unlike the original trial, there is ZERO presumption of innocence. Deciding guilt or innocence is not the function of the appeals process.

Also, people always point out the cost of the appeals process - trouble is, they forget it cuts both ways. The public pays a big bill, but the cost of bringing the appeals can also be huge for the convicted. If wrongly convicted and poor, you better hope somebody takes up your cause, otherwise you'll certainly fry.

F. Lee Bailey was quoted as saying the following - if he thinks you've got an uphill battle in the appeals process, it's pretty safe to say the vast majority of folks wrongly convicted are screwed.

“Appellate courts have only one function, and that is to correct legal mistakes of a serious nature made by a judge at a lower level. Should a jury have erred by believing a lying witness, or by drawing an attractive but misleading inference, there is nothing to appeal.”

Add to the above, if you oppose the death penalty, you can NOT be on the original jury in a case where the DP is on the line. Depending on what polls you believe, 30-50% of all people are therefore ineligible to serve on these juries. How's that for skewing the pool? Doesn't matter how fair minded you are or how well you can judge guilt or innocence, you get the boot based on actions you would take in the penalty phase, IF THERE IS ONE.

So much for a jury of one's peers...

The word "deterrence" hasnt been beaten to death yet. If you knew that (for example) you were gonna rob a bank and the penalty for armed robbery is (was?) the dealth penalty, wont that make it less likely that you'll carry a gun with you ?

I've read anecdotal evidence that agrees with this (college ethics course...) but its only anecdotal ---Some people will not carry a gun because they might get the DP...some people---.
Since money should not be a consideration of whether we kill someone ((another good reason to put a dollar value on human life =) )) one needs another reason if we are to defend it Deterrence is the only reason left. How do you prove that the DP deters crime ?

-John

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Thats a fallacy.

If you want to work numbers, then how about the guys who broke out a few years ago and killed a security guard. The death penalty would have saved him, why is his life less valuable than the person who got inoccently convicted?

The arguement that it costs to much to go through the process of the death penalty, your arguement is for streamlining the system. Radical anti death penalty advocates abuse that system and THAT should be stopped.

Justice is also another reason for the death penalty, NOT REVENGE, they are different.

A society makes a statement on what it values by how it punishes people for various acts. Lets say we only give two years for ANY murder, then we are saying we dont really value life that much, and we value it less than a car if stealing a car gets you five years.

Regarding the killing a cop thing, it is also pretty much recognized that a guy who is willing to kill a cop has really gone over the line and is extremely violent and more likely to kill anyone anytime, more of a danger to society.

Bots also hit it, when you have life w/o parole, then he can murder anyone in prison he wants to without any punishment, since he has already hit his punishment limit.

One that really cracks me up is those who say the death penalty is cruel and unusual, then they will also say, besides, life in prison is probably worse than the death penalty, hmmmm, so, life in prison is worse, but you wont give the death penalty cuz its soo bad?

Lastly, one thing very few people think about. Those who are guards in the prisons that house the "worst of the worst" , it winds up taking a toll on their lifes. Emotionally it ruins many of them, after some time, it wears them down having to deal with these people, they go home with images running through their heads of all the crap that constantly goes on inside. I saw a program of an institution that houses such criminals, and when interviewed, the guards there all wind up becoming depressed.

Im wondering, the guy in San Diego, a few years ago they caught him, and had so much evidence there is no way he wasnt guilty, he kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered a seven year old girl, does he deserve to live?

me cast my vote, NOT

I'd hate to be a prison guard, especially in units where certifiable scum of the earth are housed.

I have a wild idea, and I'm not alone, to bring back prison islands. Apparently, there is a fair number of islands around the world that can support life that are uninhabited.

How about you drop a bunch of these guy on one, give 'em hoes and shovels and seeds, and let 'em go. It's almost cerainly never going to happen -- having an inpenetrable patrol around the island 24/7 might be impossible and if a family of yachting tourists happened on the island like happened in one of the Jurassic Park movies - where the little girl almost got eaten by small dinosaurs - oh man, it would be ugly.

Still, it's an appealing thought -- no guards would ever have to have their minds soiled by those miscreants and the a**holes could have a chance at some sort of rehab, if they didn't kill each other first.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Well then.............all you need to do is move to Texas. You will have your streamlined system for killing the perpetrators. No radical "anti death penalty advocates" to abuse the system down there.

You can get sufficient "justice" whatever that means, by incarcerating them for life.

Of course, in your scenario, it's a perfect system, and every person put to death in Texas committed the crime for which they were convicted, right.

The fact is that is costs significantly more to put a person to death. And all the bull$hit in the world is not going to change this fact. So, as a conservative person, you should prefer to incarcerate them for life because it costs you less out of your pocket.

I don't think the DP is a deterrent, anyone whacked out enough to kill for reasons other than self defense or defense of another innocent person is going to kill anyway.

I wonder how many people that killed in self defense are on death row?

I don't think that's a bad idea.

I like that idea.......post it off limits and any idiots in a yacht that stop there deserve whatever happens to them.

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Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
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Section 609 MVAC Certified
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"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

I was talking to a colleague who heard a former warden of Angola State Pen (max security prison in Louisiana. Has a fence and outside of it, the second biggest swamp in North America and then the largest river in North America). The talk was on river mgmt and levee maintenance.

So there was this big flood and they asked how much time they would have if the levee was breached before the whole area was under water. Answer, about a half-day. They decided that they would have to leave the 200 lockdown and death row inmates in their cells if the flood happened and save the other 5,000 inmates by busing them to local and regional prisons. The 200 inmates in lockdown were too dangerous to risk moving them in the prison buses, the only lockable vehicles they have.

The warden said the decision came to this: He knew that the newspapers, governor, legislators, and people would hate him for leaving 200 men to drown. They would also hate him if those men escaped because there was no doubt in his mind that they would do whatever it took to get what they wanted wherever they went. That would take innocent lives. He decided he prefered to have the 200 inmate deaths on his conscience to the loss of a single innocent civilian's life.

It got me wondering whether this state (or any state, hint-hint) has a plan for evacuating their penetientiaries. I don't know, do you? Motel 6? Holiday Inn Express?

I first got wind of the idea in a column by Jon Carroll, he's an SF Chron regular. He had a book that listed many of the inhabitable but uninhabited islands in the world. It would be a lot more humane in many ways than what we're doing now.

I think maybe it's ultimately not doable. Well, maybe for the life with no parole crowd, but even with that limited group, the numbers might be so large that it would be hard to find enough islands that could be used that wouldn't prompt a humongous outpouring of objection by all sorts of concerned parties.

And if a family of yachters did land on it, if they missed the off limits status, oh my ghod, there would be the hostage standoff from hell. The state dept. of whatever country they were from would be under enormous pressure.

It's nice to think about anyway, I mean, not the hostage deal, but a way to get these guys away from civilized society -- including guards.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

[QUOTE=narwhal]I guess a lot matters under what terms the people were caught....

was it 20 years after the fact on circumstantial evidence or were they caught at the scene in the act....

The former I would tend to lean more for life sentance..and the latter just shoot them on the spot....

__________________
Proud owner of ....
1971 280SE W108
1979 300SD W116
1983 300D W123
1975 Ironhead Sportster chopper
1987 GMC 3/4 ton 4X4 Diesel
1989 Honda Civic (Heavily modified)
---------------------
Section 609 MVAC Certified
---------------------
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche