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  #46  
Old 06-21-2005, 03:47 PM
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It's unfortunate if 1 innocent man were to suffer beinbg incarcerated unjustly, but has anyone considered that if one guilty man were allowed to go free and he decided to go on a mass killing spree, like hijacking a school bus and hurting a bunch of kids.

That would really suck and someone conscience will really be bothering them afterwards.

****, how many murdering dogs don't get off because a rookie cop made a mistake gathering evidence?

Shoot 'em all, worry about it later.

Now that's a deterent.

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  #47  
Old 06-21-2005, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012
I first got wind of the idea in a column by Jon Carroll, he's an SF Chron regular. He had a book that listed many of the inhabitable but uninhabited islands in the world. It would be a lot more humane in many ways than what we're doing now.

I think maybe it's ultimately not doable. Well, maybe for the life with no parole crowd, but even with that limited group, the numbers might be so large that it would be hard to find enough islands that could be used that wouldn't prompt a humongous outpouring of objection by all sorts of concerned parties.

And if a family of yachters did land on it, if they missed the off limits status, oh my ghod, there would be the hostage standoff from hell. The state dept. of whatever country they were from would be under enormous pressure.

It's nice to think about anyway, I mean, not the hostage deal, but a way to get these guys away from civilized society -- including guards.

The island would still have to be monitored. Whats to stop these bastards from organizing building a sea worthy craft and getting off the island (Can you say Kurt Russell )
What made Australia so viable in this regard was its distance from "civilization" way back then. How far are these modern deserted islands he writes about from current civilization?
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  #48  
Old 06-21-2005, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal

But point taken is that it is a lot cheaper to execute---even when factoriing in appeals vs. life in prison w/o parole.
I'm a bit surprised that you are not aware of the costs.

There is plenty of data to show it is less costly to send a prisoner to jail for life than to execute him. This has nothing to do with actually putting a needle in his arm. The legal process to get him to that point is what consumes all the funds. And, the taxpayer gets to pay for both the prosecution and the defense.

I'm for the death penalty in certain specific cases. However, if I can pay less and lock them up for life, I'm fine with that too.
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  #49  
Old 06-21-2005, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
Why on earth would I be aware of the costs? I don't live on google like a lot of you armchair professors, but read the paper in my area and hear a lot of shop talk.

Your "data" does not take into consideration the myriad of prisoner's cases that have quick appeals (no habeas, innefective assistance, ect....) defenses or the ones who give up during the appeals process.
You might be aware of the costs because it is your profession.

I'm just passing along the info regarding the costs. It's not "my data". It's a free country. You can believe what you want.

In the case you described, whereby the defendant doesn't get the extensive judicial process for 10 years, you would clearly be correct.
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  #50  
Old 06-21-2005, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by narwhal
One lawyer in 50, maybe 100 will not know the costs of death penalty vs. life in prison.
Yes, this was my belief as well.

You must be the one in 100.
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  #51  
Old 06-21-2005, 05:53 PM
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$ Kansas Study Concludes Death Penalty is Costly Policy
In its review of death penalty expenses, the State of Kansas concluded that capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-death penalty cases. The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The costs of appeals were 29% of the total expense, and the incarceration and execution costs accounted for the remaining 22%. In comparison to non-death penalty cases, the following findings were revealed:

* The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases.
* The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).
* The appeal costs for death cases were 21 times greater.
* The costs of carrying out (i.e. incarceration and/or execution) a death sentence were about half the costs of carrying out a non-death sentence in a comparable case.
* Trials involving a death sentence averaged 34 days, including jury selection; non-death trials averaged about 9 days.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
I was just cuttin and pastin.
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  #53  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
oh i know, but doesn't that one point read a little weird?

Now I get it.
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
Obviously I made a typo dickead. I assume you are more into making sparring partners than friends in this weird medium, so I guess we can from now forward count on filling this place up with more garbage.
Obviously you did. And, obviously, you can't even recognize a when you see it.

So, who is the dickhead?, you genius

If you want to be pissed at someone, just look in the mirror.

Last edited by Brian Carlton; 06-21-2005 at 06:15 PM.
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
but will stay pissed at you, as I have certainly drawn your ire and attention somehow.
I'm kidding with you in post #53 and you respond with post #56. Althought it might be difficult for you to understand, such a post might warrant some "ire and attention."

But, hey, stay pissed all you want. I really couldn't give a $hit.
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2005, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narwhal
Sorry, I don't speak dork...
Really? That's odd...what dialect would one associate "dickhead" with?
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  #57  
Old 06-21-2005, 09:14 PM
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I'm sorry guys, your dialogue is freaking funny and definitely shows you guys are smarter'n heck. Thank you for your posts.

Now please return to speaking dorkish, I'm learning a lot here.

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  #58  
Old 06-24-2005, 03:39 AM
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Actually, I find narwhal and Brian Carlton to both be likeable and worth reading....MOST of the time anyway.

For what it's worth N, I thought BC was just gently pulling your leg, but then I've been known to be defensive too, right?
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  #59  
Old 06-24-2005, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yal
The island would still have to be monitored. Whats to stop these bastards from organizing building a sea worthy craft and getting off the island (Can you say Kurt Russell )
What made Australia so viable in this regard was its distance from "civilization" way back then. How far are these modern deserted islands he writes about from current civilization?
Yeah, you're right. There's no way you could just leave them there and hope for the best.

I never saw the book and he didn't elaborate on how far some of the islands were away from everything else. The best scenario would be if one was relatively close to another island so the guards could have somewhere to live. The whole idea is probably impossible. If the island was too far away from everything else, getting people to work the monitoring detail would be tough and expensive. If it was close to civilization, the island would be in demand for other uses.

Bottom line, you'd need to have lookouts 24/7 that could see all sides of the island to prevent escape or accidental landing by innocents, especially females, who would be set upon with ferocity, no doubt.

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