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  #31  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:11 PM
Geezer
 
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Location: Holland, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Delor
...OH! I visited relatives in Detroit last year... found out that GM bought the RenCen...apparently because Chrysler bought some big ole building across the river and they wanted to keep up...
What building would that be? Across the river is Canada. Chrysler Canada has a large assembly facility, but no office building.

Quote:
...What was GM thinking when they bought the RenCen?? Where they out of their minds?? They don't have the money now to buy that kind of thing, and I bet they really didn't have it back then either. Besides, who is gonna buy it anyway?
They really wanted to move out of the old headquarters building in the New Center area. That building design was old, not designed for air-conditioning, and had been placed on the Historical Register, meaning that they could not make any substantial changes or additions. The RenCen was available, and it made economic sense to them.

Oh, and they sold their old building to the State of Michigan, so they probably made out like a bandit...

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  #32  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:48 PM
Larry Delor's Avatar
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Location: Sarasota, Fl.
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Hey Jim!

I didn't know that about their old building and the sale. The fellow that told me about the RenCen, couldn't give me many details. I don't know what building Chrysler bought either. Maybe I misunderstood, and it's not in Windsor after all. I always liked Windsor...even the Windsor ballet

-Larry
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  #33  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:53 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finix2835
Define irony.... people drive around in their Hondas, Toyotas and all those other recyled beer can asian eyesores with American flags on the back. If they so love America why didnt they buy American?

Long live GM

Well lets see Honda's and Toyota's are made in America by Americans. Most Fords are made in Mexico or Canada, as are GM's.

So feel good driving the Canadian made GM product knowing that you are supporting Canadian auto workers. I'll keep my Camry and support the good old boys in Kentucky.
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:09 PM
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I'll drive my GMs and enjoy them. Enjoy your beer cans and money going to japan (which has beautification laws meaning obsolescence).
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Last edited by Finix2835; 12-20-2005 at 11:19 PM.
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  #35  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:42 PM
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I think I have stock in Toyota, so lots of Americans make money off them. In the new global market place everything is international and connected. If the Japanese economy tanks so will ours.
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  #36  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:48 AM
John Holmes III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaDiesel
What are you talking about? Most of those Toyotas and Hondas are made in the USA by Ameicans!!!! They are just built better!!!!! Simple.

What most people fair to understand is that the big three (mostly GM and Ford at this point) are still VERY into the idea of planned obsolescence... which translates into building junk. Once they realize that Americans can't afford to deal with junk, they'll prosper just like Toyota and Honda!
Thanks, E.F. Hutton.....

....and the profits from those American made ricers? Goes straight back to Japan. Including the interest, if financed through honda/toyota credit.

How easily people forget that just a few years ago Asian vehicles were dangerous, rust prone, econobox vehicles with no resale value. Toyotas and Hondas are not built better. They have their fair share of very expensive problems.
The asians are very adept at covering up ther dirty laundry.
Many of the so-called "junk cars" built by American car manufactures were really asian vehicles with a American nameplate. So there.
Toyota and Honda don't spend money on things that any long term employee would wish for: health care and pension plans. For every vehicle GM builds, over $1500.00 of the cost is for health care. I say it's time we bring back trade restrictions for asian vehicles. That's what saved Harley-Davidson back in the early '80s. Look at Harley today. The real truth is the the asians are flooding the market, thus bringing overall prices down.

Planned obsolescence??? Huh? Try getting parts for a ten year old domestic car, then try getting parts for a ten year old asian vehicle. The answer is the same at the dealer level and the part store level. Sorry Charlie, I don't buy that, btw, I managed a auto parts store for many years. I saw it with my own eyes, Hondas and Toyotas run great for the first 100k, then they need expensive repairs and get dumped.

If you want real luxury take a ride in a true world class Cadillac with the Northstar v8. Fuel economy in the mid twenties, 0-60 in 6.5ish seconds, and reliability and luxury second to none, including Toyota and Honda. As certified by J.D. Powers surveys.

Whatever happened to really buying American?
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  #37  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:49 AM
John Holmes III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finix2835
I'll drive my GMs and enjoy them. Enjoy your beer cans and money going to japan (which has beautification laws meaning obsolescence).
I couldn't agree more.
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  #38  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:53 AM
John Holmes III
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Oh, btw, I forgot:

LONG LIVE GM
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  #39  
Old 12-21-2005, 01:10 AM
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The GM story is unfolding as we speak. Recently the honcho over there, Wagoner wrote an op ed in the WSJ talking up the situation as he sees it for GM. He's trying to say that they are being held for ransom by the union without saying it directly. Healthcare costs etc are very high. Well, you still have to sell product. And GM has been lagging in the design area for some time. They have kept models in production too long and don't respond very well to foreign maker innovations. Go ahead steal the innovations, why not?

Anyway, it's not a buy in my book until it gets down around $10 per share. But, GM has many good assets, and is here to stay in some form. But when you buy it, you'll want to keep it for awhile. It certainly has the potential to do a Chrysler like turn around. But will need new leadership and to get rid of those middle managers.
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  #40  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:46 AM
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Speaking of 100K mile expensive repairs and then mentioning a northstar is appropriate... American cars are garbage. So are japanese cars. So are german and Italian cars... So are swedish cars...? Perhaps if people quit BUYING them altogether they'd make them better? I dunno, something went wrong the day an orange peel paint job came on a $150'000 car. But when you just have to have the newest, shiniest hood ornament...
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  #41  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:57 AM
John Holmes III
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The problems that people bellyache about the Northstar are due to a lack of service at prescribed intervals. Blown headgaskets wouldn't happen if people changed the coolant every five years, instead of never doing it.
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  #42  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDon
i hate to say this but american cars have lost their quality sure i wasnt around in the 50-60's when the cars were the best but after 71 the cars of all american car companies just sucked.. my moms equinox made in canada so its not american and its been in the shop 12 times for stupid stuff my step dads aveo made in korea is just shody leaves in the air vents.. how they get in their i dont know and various other things.. and what really bothers me is gm's whoel sharing of models. the vue the euqinox and the pontiac version .. see i dont even know the name of it because its soo generic. i rember watching history channel on muscle cars and gm pontiac buick and the rest within gm would compete for the best.. now they just gave up .. i will buy a nice benz when i get out of college i nice diesel because i know america cars will be crud
I saw video once of a GM exec holding up a Toyota piston rod at a meeting saying something like, "See, how they've got this little doo-dah here? And this thing here?" He was pointing out that Toyota was coming up with some advanced engineering that was outpacing them. This was 10 - 15 years ago. Wonder how much they took the guy seriously.
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  #43  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:06 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes III
Planned obsolescence??? Huh? Try getting parts for a ten year old domestic car, then try getting parts for a ten year old asian vehicle. The answer is the same at the dealer level and the part store level. Sorry Charlie, I don't buy that, btw, I managed a auto parts store for many years. I saw it with my own eyes, Hondas and Toyotas run great for the first 100k, then they need expensive repairs and get dumped.

If you want real luxury take a ride in a true world class Cadillac with the Northstar v8. Fuel economy in the mid twenties, 0-60 in 6.5ish seconds, and reliability and luxury second to none, including Toyota and Honda. As certified by J.D. Powers surveys.

Whatever happened to really buying American?
I dunno. Consumer reports consistently puts Toyota at the top of the class in reliability. Honda not far behind.

I've spent many hours driving big GMs, Caprices and the like, former cop cars often as not when I was driving cab. Solid cars, but boat like.

I've had a Chevy G-10 van for years and it is one reliable rig.
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  #44  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim H
....Oh, and they sold their old building to the State of Michigan, so they probably made out like a bandit...

They sold it for $1 to the state. It's also written into the agreement that the state must not let it run down or be destroyed artifically or by time.
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  #45  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:56 AM
Geezer
 
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Location: Holland, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rg2098
They sold it for $1 to the state. It's also written into the agreement that the state must not let it run down or be destroyed artifically or by time.
Yes, and that will become one of the most expensive $1 real estate purchases in the area. I think GM was smart to sell.

Wait a minute! We just bought it! It's paid with MI1040 paper...

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