LOL ! I really don't miss having to pay state income tax. Especially if the state buys something of a white elephant as the GM building.

For the record...I have owned GM's ...a '76 Malibu (Chick magnet - NOT), and although it had equal parts of rust and paint, parts for that old A body with the small block V8 were cheap. And, it always started (except for that time I unknowingly bought gas with methanol and it vapor locked, prompting me to re-route the gas line).
I also had an 88 Deville. Now here the parts got pricier...some more than for my Benz(s). It, always started for me too, however when compared to the 88SEL which was twice the price new, the Deville was half the car.

GM is a funny critter in some ways. They used to be able to build simple sturdy and even somewhat reliable cars. As soon as they tried to keep up, they would stub their toes.

The J Body - a pleasant car to look at back then, but the first ones were so slow that GM should've been embarrassed.
The Fiero - another car that was pleasant to look at back then, but again, so underpowered that it was a joke. By the time they got a V-6 in there, people lost interest.
The X-body - Although the skylark/citation was popular it was a mediocre car, Engineers tried to fit 10lbs of stuff into a 5lb bag and it showed.


And, it seems they are continuing their tradition a la J body and Fiero with the new Pontiac Solstice.... Nice looking car (imitation being the sincerest form of flattery is obviously not a lost concept!), however all it comes with for now is another ho-hum 4 banger. Yeah, I'm sure that next year they'll shoehorn a V-6 in there. But by then people will have lost interest just like they did when the Fiero turned out to be a sheep in wolf's clothing.
It is tarnishing it's own reputation from the start.
Perhaps GM should seek some counseling as to why they keep repeating this self destructive behavior. Knowing them, they'll probably pick Dr. Phil - wouldn't that end result be a hoot?


Oh one more thing I want to get off my chest. What were they smoking when they thought it was ok to put the Cadillac name (Cimmarron) on the same body as a Chavalier?? And then have the balls to offer a uninspiring 4 cyl.? That should never have happened. IF they absolutely had to put the Caddy name on that body, then they could've at least done a better job with the trimmings - Caddy is supposed to exude quality and luxury, not wannabe stuff like they installed instead.

It's like someone at GM was always saying "That's good enough" way too soon, and then proceeded to build the car.

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

I could not hold my nose tight enough to own another GM.

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My first car was a Trans AM, I bought it brand new, was 18, in college holding a part time job as well, enjoyed it at first, then in few months, came hell, problems every week, missed classes and job, it was no good so out it went and in came a beat up Nissan Pulsar with 69000 miles, lasted me for two years and 69,000 odd miles more till I sold it to a freshman. Needless to say, the Trans Am was my first and last GM product just like the JEEP Wrangler was my first and last Chrysler product.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

I've had a pretty good history with Mopars, 5 of them to be exact (all trucks, well one Jeep Grand Cherokee.... no nit-picking). Had a few GMs all of which sucked sweaty donky tesiticles.

Wow man.. that's cool! What # is it and what the story behind finding it?

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Thanks....... its a 95, replaced my FZR-1000, quite old now but the 145bhp holds good against the new stuff, am considering the 2008 Yamaha R-1, its too good to resist, dunno how my 42 year old back will hold up to it.

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99 Gurkha with OM616 IDI turbo

2015 Gurkha with OM616 DI turbo

2014 Rexton W with OM612 VGT

I own an auto parts store, I read countless car magazines, I browse internet forums regularly - I'm a total car guy. My experience is that GM makes some of the best quality cars/trucks out there - certainly their quality is on the way up. Toyota used to make some of the best quality cars/trucks out there, but their quality is on the way down. As of now, the two are about equal, except that GM still has a reputation of "crap" while Toyota still has a reputation of "unbelievable" - neither are true.

As an owner of many GM products, Ford products, and Toyota products in the past 10 years, I have had more issues with the Toyotas than the GMs, and the Fords were the worst of the three.

GM isn't "going out of business" anytime soon.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

I've always had good luck with my GMs.

When I was growing up, Dad always had a GM -- when I was small, a '47 Cadillac; later, a succession of Chevy Impalas. I don't recall him *****ing about 'em. Of course, that was the '60s.

My first and second GM cars were Oldsmobile Cutlass coupes, both quick and smooth, with V-6 engines that got good economy on regular. Everything worked -- except on the '89 model the parking brake went out a month before my brake tag inspection was due, and the brake setup was hydraulic and therefore expensive instead of a simple mechanical arrangement. Aside from that I drove it for 4 years without a problem. Its '94 successor I traded in when I began my sojourn with Mercedes, and I regret not keeping it as well.

After six weeks, the '03 Buick I bought in August (at 44K miles) continues to amaze me. It's smooth and stable, quick for a car that weighs almost as much as my W126 did, and so far has returned about 20.5 mpg on regular. (Of course it's too early to tell how reliable it will prove to be in the long run.)
.

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-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('03 Buick Park Avenue, charcoal/cream)
Formerly:
'97 C230, smoke silver/parchment; '86 420SEL, anthracite/light grey; '84 280CE (W123), dark blue/palomino

you forgot about the late 70's caddy seville that was a rebadged nova.some of em had 5.7 diesels!!the rest were fuel injected.

i take that back it was based on the malibu/cutlass body.

The A body?

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It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so. Robert A. Heinlein


09 Jetta TDI
1985 300D

Anitdocal "evidence" is amazing. I hear all these stories about GM's great quality, and how bad is Ford--I accept that all the respondants are truthful.
My experience is different. Among domestic US makers, i have had great experience w/ Ford, and pretty good w/ Chrysler. My wife's 2003 Hyuandai Elantra has been absolutely the most reliable car we have ever owned, and it is approached 5 years old.

i would bet that maintenance and how driven have as much to say anout reliability as manufacturing.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

You can put me and my family in the same camp. Different branches of my family are loyal to the different domestic makes, I'm not partial to or biased against any one ("import" brands either). But reliability-wise there haven't been issues. Being stereotypical cheap New England yankees we generally just don't throw money around, especially on vehicles. Some of them do have Lincolns, Cadillacs, Corvettes, Tahoes, Suburbans, Expeditions, an Excursion and big diesel pickups (generally not inexpensive vehicles). Some were purchased new (renegades that are a little looser with their money), but most get them off-lease or as 2-3yo trade-in's. But you can be damn sure they're going to get at least 150-250K out of them before they're retired. Routine and preventitive maintenance is innate and as a result we have definitely gotten our money's worth out of our cars.

Fit, finish and materials are another matter, but reliability hasn't anecdotally been an issue.

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1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

Toyota skids in reliability rankings
Automaker slips to fifth from first place, and some versions of Camry, Tundra and Lexus GS no longer recommended.
By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer
October 16 2007: 1:21 PM EDT


NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.

The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.


2007 Toyota Camry: Because of poor predicted reliability, V6-powered versions of the Toyota Camry are no longer recommended by Consumer Reports.



Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.

Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.

In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.

But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.

"We are still, by any measure, a very reliable make," said Toyota spokesman Xavier Dominicis.

Toyota Motor Co., which makes Toyota, Lexus and Scion cars, makes 44 percent of the cars rated as "Most Reliable" by Consumer Reports, Dominicis pointed out.

Toyota recently passed Ford in sales and is now the second best-selling car company in the United States behind General Motors.

Domestic manufacturers General Motors (Charts, Fortune 500), Ford (Charts, Fortune 500) and Chrysler continued to improve in the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. But only Buick, GM's near-luxury brand ranked number 10, made into the top ten.

Among individual models, GM's closely related GMC Acadia and Saturn Outlook SUVs earned a Consumer Reports recommendation based on their first full year of data. The Dodge Charger also earned a recommendation after its reliability showed substantial improvement from previous years.

Ford, in particular, is improving in quality, according to Consumer Reports. In all, 93 percent of Ford, Lincoln and Mercury vehicles showed average or better reliability in the most recent reliability survey.

Among overall brands, Ford's Mercury brand ranked 11th, the Ford brand ranked 13th and the Lincoln luxury brand ranked 14th. Other than Buick, they were the highest-ranking domestic brands.

Mike Hardie, Ford's director of quality, predicted that Ford would take the top position in Consumer Reports reliability rankings in the near future.

Ford's quality has tended to be more consistent, with steady improvement year over year, than that of other domestic manufacturers, said David Champion, head of auto testing for Consumer Reports.

"GM and Chrysler have been more hit-and-miss," said Champion.

Of the 39 cars rated "Most Reliable" in Consumer Reports new list, four are by domestic manufacturers. They are the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, two-wheel-drives Ford F-150 V6 and GM's Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe is built in cooperation with Toyota and shares its engineering with the Toyota Matrix.

But 20 of the 44 "least reliable" models named by Consumer Reports were also from domestic manufacturers.

The least reliable car of all, according to Consumer Reports survey, is General Motors' Pontiac Solstice sports car. Its reliability was calculated to be 234 percent worse than average. It was followed closely by GM's Cadillac Escalade EXT, which is calculated to be 220 percent less reliable than the average vehicle.

European manufacturers showed some of the biggest improvements in overall brand rankings. Porsche rose 20 places since last year's survey to finish ninth, for example. Meanwhile, Mini rose 16 places and Jaguar rose 17.

Consumer Reports' reliability rankings differ significantly from those released recently by J.D. Power and Associates. In the J.D. Power most recent "Vehicle Dependability Survey," five of the top ten brands were domestic and Buick tied Lexus for first place.

One major reason for that difference: J.D. Power only surveys owners of three-year-old vehicles. But Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers about vehicles from all three of the most recent model years, unless the vehicle has changed significantly. If the vehicle has changed in that time, only vehicles built since the change are included.

Consumer Reports' rankings are based on survey responses from subscribers to the magazine and its Website. Responses included information on almost 1.3 million vehicles.

Over the past few years, both Consumer Reports and J.D. Power surveys have showed similar trends, however, with domestic car brands improving in quality with European brands generally lagging behind.

My moms 07 Rav4 has been totaly trouble free. So far its only needed one oil change which was free, and its due for another soon, which will be free as well.


GM is coming out with some interesting cars. I want to take a look at the G8 when it comes out.

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2006 CL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2026 Genesis GV70
2007 Tiara 3200

The first generation Seville was based on the X-body (Nova, Apollo, etc.). The gas and diesel engines were 5.7 liter Oldsmobile.