It sets a tough standard, I'll admit, but it never hurts to aim high.

In no time at all, people will find us indistinguishable.

Oh no, I've looked in his eyes. He's pure evil....

Yes, I know. It's frustrating and I know I shouldn't allow myself to get that way over this. Since I go to the trouble of finding primary sources and citing verifiable facts I expect others to do so as well. Then you run into the "Michael Moore is a stand up guy" argument from people. Do they not realize that his movies are used as textbooks for college courses in the psychology of propoganda? linkee here (fascinating article BTW on how people think and process information, or in this case don't). If this is thier idea of factual information it's no wonder that they won't post sources and are such avid empty vessels awaiting their bolus of propoganda.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Quite the contrary, it seems like you're aiming quite low.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

I heard a quote from one of his college buds, words to the effect that if you think Cheney will be happy just ruling the world, you don't know him very well. I first saw the guy on the Leher NewsHour in the late 80s, doing damage control on Iran/Contra and instinctively did not trust him. A very strange man.

Reminds me of the verse from the John Lennon song:

There's room at the top they're telling you still,
But first you must learn to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Ba-da-boom.

I haven't read all of this thread yet, maybe this has been said; it amazes me that Bush and supporters are still trotting out the bogus line that members of Congress had access to the same intelligence as Bush, and they came to the same conclusions.

Utter Horse Offal. It's been pointed out many times that Congress doesn't have nearly the access to intelligence as does the executive branch. Furthermore, team Bush also had access to reports that disparaged the intelligence they were relying on, such as Germany's cautious stance on anything coming out of "Curveball's" mouth, and none of this was made available to Congress. Instead, "Curveball's" curveballs were used by Powell in his U.N. address. The guy was one of Challibi's lackeys.

Bush, Cheney, et. al. and their propaganda wing at FOX don't care about truth. They care about power.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Listen closely: I don't like Moore. I think he's an oaf. His embrace of Wesley Clark displayed his poor judgement. Clark is a strange character, IMO, not a real strong player, all in all.

There was some propaganda involved in Moore's movie(s). My position is that some of the information was instructive and that the widespread trashing of him is mainly an attempt to kill the messenger so as to discredit the valid criticism he raises.

I guess you're going to tell me that the Bush admin. doesn't engage in propaganda, govt. financed?

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Read the article. I doubt you'll like it, I don't think it mentiones Vietnam more than once.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

OK smart guy, I want a book report on the Gulf of Tonkin incident -- parts one and two. You don't know squat about Vietnam and you give me a hard time because I have a nagging fear that all the carnage we swept under the rug in that one will (is) come(ing) back to haunt us.

What's it say in the bible: "Be certain your sin will find you out?"

I read part of the lonnnggg article you linked to. I'll agree. Moore was sloppy and intentionally propagandistic. It's kinda sad, cause he could have done just fine w/o that crap.

The techniques of propaganda the fellow pointed out remind me of Bush/Cheney. Very selective reporting of information. Lots and lots of propaganda. Hell, they've had people on the payroll whose job that was. Probably still do. Hannity, FOX, Limbaugh, et. al. drive me nuts because they rely on half truths constantly. It would take me an hour to debunk 1/2 hour of Hannity's booooo$h!t, so thick is the disinformation.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

He was not at all sloppy, everything he put in that movie was exactly as he wanted it. Face it, his job in the world is to get people to agree with him without using rational thought. He has succeeded admirably.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

You give him too much credit. For the most part, his films preach to the choir.

I don't think I've significantly altered my thinking based on anything Moore has done.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

Astonishing ability. A continent away, pheremone-free, 2-d false color NTSC image. No problem. Somehow instinct, a a feature of natural selection, overcomes factors undreampt of in prehistory. This is evolution in anticipation of a need. Amazing!

Bot

Hey, make-up your own response, that one's mine. You probably used it "instinctively."

Bot