Ceramic tile question - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

boneheaddoctor · #16 05-02-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

You wouldn't use greenboard in a shower....

Lot of new contruction does use greenboard....which I will agree is not the best thing...cement board is the right way to go. I used cement board behind all tile and greenboard on the non-tiled wals and the ceiling for the moisture resistance in both my bathrooms.

kerry · #17 05-02-2006, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

what did you use as a backer to the tile....greenboard or cement board? Were they properly grouted? What tile gap and did you use sanded or unsanded grout. Like many things the foundation is key to a long lasting job. Shwer stall floors must have a membrane propperly installed. Is you froblem with the floor or the wall, I didn't see that in the post.

Regular sheet rock will not hold up long in a shower even with a proper tile job.

I did my two bathrooms 7 years ago and used ceramic tile over cement board, using thinset not mastic. Never had any problems on either the floor or walls.

It's the floor which is 75yr old concrete. Shower walls are some kind of solid stone also 75 yrs old. I think it was sanded grout, but it was a yr ago so I can't be sure. It was the most expensive pre-mixed grout at HD at the time.

It's definitely a problem with the mastic because besides the ones that popped up, I can get the ones still in place to move slightly, as if they are set in rubber, when I pry on them. The ones directly underfoot when taking a shower are the ones that came up.

The irony is that I chose the pre-mixed mastic and grout because I thought, as an amateur, it was possible I would mix the non-premixed stuff wrongly.

boneheaddoctor · #18 05-02-2006, 11:03 AM

Trust me I am not in the construction business..and am no pro with this either....I learned quite a lot watching this old house and hometime...and did research online....ordered my stuff from a local tile shop that gave me design ideas and installation tips beyond what I already learned. The basics are really simple to learn. I have since did both bathrooms and my kitchen in ceramic tile. And still have neighbors begging my to do their house at whatever I want to charge ( I really don't have the time or motivation to do it for them). Have you determined if the stone or mortar surface you are trying to put the tile on is solid and stabile? As in not deteriorating allowing the mastic bond to come off with base material attached? If thats the case you need to address that problem first. I was of the opinion mastic is fine for a kitchen backsplash but determined on my own I didn't want to use it on the floor or batroom at all. Mostly becasue it needs to be adsolutely solid, and rigid or the grout will fracture and lay open a path to water to get behind it.

Also did you use a toothed or a flat edge trowel? a flat straight edge will put excessive adheasive compond down be it mastic or Thinset.

mzsmbs · #19 05-02-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

Oil thread alert!!

mzsmbs · #20 05-02-2006, 02:15 PM

if the concrete floor was in good condition, there really is no better underlayment then that.

mzsmbs · #21 05-02-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

Lot of new contruction does use greenboard....which I will agree is not the best thing...cement board is the right way to go. I used cement board behind all tile and greenboard on the non-tiled wals and the ceiling for the moisture resistance in both my bathrooms.

yup. but a lot of contractors skimp on even that and they just use green board on everything if they use green board. i have seen a lot of drywall backing tiles in the bathrooms. it's called job security.

John Doe · #22 05-02-2006, 02:36 PM

Whoa, I missed something major here. Mastic is not pre-mixed grout. The mastic I am referring to is an adhesive that you use to install tile, it is not grout. I think the brand my old company is using now is Chapco, btw. If that stuff failed, the company should honor your re-install costs if your surface was proper.

Bone, I meant installing the actual shower tiles on greenboard. Destined for failure. It is perfectly fine for kitchen backsplashes and wall tile in the head.

kerry · #23 05-02-2006, 03:20 PM

I don't know what the proper term is for the setting material I used. It was pre-mixed 'something' in a pail. I considered the dry material but decided buying it pre-mixed would avoid any mixing mistakes. I may still have the pail around. If I do, I'll call the manufacturer and discuss the situation with them. The concrete was as solid as any concrete can be.

The grout was also pre-mixed.

John Doe · #24 05-02-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

I don't know what the proper term is for the setting material I used. It was pre-mixed 'something' in a pail. I considered the dry material but decided buying it pre-mixed would avoid any mixing mistakes. I may still have the pail around. If I do, I'll call the manufacturer and discuss the situation with them. The concrete was as solid as any concrete can be.

The grout was also pre-mixed.

If indeed it was mastic, my recollection with failure issues is that it has a shelf life. If you could find the can it should have a date. If the store sold it after its date, its their problem.

IME, flooring manufacturers were pretty good about honoring warranties of fitness. They acknowledge that the nature of say, manufacturing carpet is hard to duplicate and production lots are different.

I recently spoke to my bro in law who still has the buisness and he just had to re-install a car dealership--the contractor had picked a color for the tile which was a color number code. He based his choice on a sample. The installed result looked nothing like the sample. The flooring manufacturer is going to eat about a $25K install on that job.

mikemover · #25 05-02-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

Grout was pre-mixed and the shower sat for weeks (in our very dry climate) before use.

Second opinion over on the tile board was also not to use the pre-mix but mix my own thinset.

Damned expensive lesson. I hate redoing work.

Yep.

I've done quite a few tile jobs, including bathrooms and outdoor tile work, and have never had any problems when using thin-set mortar.

Using mastics and/or glues is a wet environment is begging for trouble.

Mike

kerry · #26 05-02-2006, 10:31 PM

The problem is my own stupidity. I found the pail of setting material. It is labelled 'Pre-Mixed Thinset' but in the fine print on the pail, it says do not use underwater or on shower pans. Back to square one.

mikemover · #27 05-02-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry edwards

The problem is my own stupidity. I found the pail of setting material. It is labelled 'Pre-Mixed Thinset' but in the fine print on the pail, it says do not use underwater or on shower pans. Back to square one.

Ah!....

"User Error".

Whenever something goes wrong around here, that usually seems to be the cause as well.

Mike

Brian Carlton · #28 05-02-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

Yep.

I've done quite a few tile jobs, including bathrooms and outdoor tile work, and have never had any problems when using thin-set mortar.

Using mastics and/or glues is a wet environment is begging for trouble.

Mike

Agreed..........

benzene · #29 05-03-2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

...installing the actual shower tiles on greenboard... is perfectly fine for kitchen backsplashes and wall tile in the head.

When I moved into this house, I took out the kitchen backsplash tile behind the sink and oven, in part because the wall was spongy behind the sink, and also because it was butt-ugly. I found the tiles had been set directly on top of white wallboard; you can only imagine the water damage I found behind the sink, plus the damage I couldn't help doing to the wallboard as I removed the tiles. I replaced the wallboard with greenboard, mortared/tiled/grouted, and it's been good for six years.

Makes me glad the showers in this place are those drop-in plastic ones. I have no doubt that had they tiled the showers or bathroom walls, they would have done that the same way, right on top of whatever wallboard was laying around. Home construction quality in homes in my price range built in the last twenty years is terrible, in my humble opinion.

boneheaddoctor · #30 05-03-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzene

When I moved into this house, I took out the kitchen backsplash tile behind the sink and oven, in part because the wall was spongy behind the sink, and also because it was butt-ugly. I found the tiles had been set directly on top of white wallboard; you can only imagine the water damage I found behind the sink, plus the damage I couldn't help doing to the wallboard as I removed the tiles. I replaced the wallboard with greenboard, mortared/tiled/grouted, and it's been good for six years.

Makes me glad the showers in this place are those drop-in plastic ones. I have no doubt that had they tiled the showers or bathroom walls, they would have done that the same way, right on top of whatever wallboard was laying around. Home construction quality in homes in my price range built in the last twenty years is terrible, in my humble opinion.

That applies across the board...even many pricey homes lack the attention to detail common even as recently as 40 years ago.