If you were to die today, why would GOD let you into HEAVEN? - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Maroon 300D · #**151** 06-01-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Indeed. The cruelty seen in nature has a purpose. Wanton violence and exploitation for sport and entertainment is unique to humans, and not a new development.

I don't know, I've seen my cat catch mice and voles before. It's not a quick end for them.

Yeah, it's a lot different than what we humans have proven capable of, but she does seem to enjoy it in a sadistic way.

Botnst · #**152** 06-01-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Indeed. The cruelty seen in nature has a purpose. Wanton violence and exploitation for sport and entertainment is unique to humans, and not a new development. A program I watched recently told of throngs of people at the Roman Colosseum addicted to witnessing bloody encounters between men and hungry lions. So maybe we made some progress since then. Or maybe we are not very good at suppressing some unspeakable urges that exist in all of us. It reminds me of when they were replaying 9/11 on TV regurlarly. I bet more than a few people thought the towers crumbling looked "really cool", in spite of knowing the multiple horrors they represented. Maybe someday that blood-lust gene can be eradicated.

I don't see progress at all, at least since the histories written in the Bible. Violence and depravity were a feature of the Biblical stories and they're a feature of us "modern" people. Saddam's son's debauchery and psycho-sexual murder fit right in with the twin cities destroyed by God in Genesis. To change would require either organic evolution or an evolution of culture. I see neither. We just have more toys.

BENZ-LGB · #**153** 06-02-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I see neither.

I see dead people.

raymr · #**154** 06-02-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

I don't know, I've seen my cat catch mice and voles before. It's not a quick end for them.

Yeah, it's a lot different than what we humans have proven capable of, but she does seem to enjoy it in a sadistic way.

Kitty is keeping those hunting skills honed, just in case. Of course people may not practice their hunting skills on other people, or is that why countries wage little wars every once in a while? Never having been in the service, is an army as effective when there is no collective memory of killing?

BENZ-LGB · #**155** 06-02-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Kitty is keeping those hunting skills honed...of course people may not practice their hunting skills on other people...

But we verbally beat up on each other...here and on every other blog site in the Internet.

Matt SD300 · #**156** 06-04-2006, 02:21 AM

BENZ-LGB "QUOTE"....I don't believe in free will. We are our biology...our
biology is us.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

HUH????

So "YOU" don't have a choice...

WOW....never heard that before.

I'm sure glad I have free will! I have made some bad choices (a bunch I wish I could take back) & some good ones....The truth is... good or bad they have all been my "CHOICES".

BENZ-LGB · #**157** 06-04-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

BENZ-LGB "QUOTE"....I don't believe in free will. We are our biology...our
biology is us.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
WOW....never heard that before.

I'm sure glad I have free will! I have made some bad choices (a bunch I wish I could take back) & some good ones....The truth is... good or bad they have all been my "CHOICES".

It is not a new concept. Many philosophers have expressed similar views and have had similar thoughts.

You only think you do...if you honestly and dispassionately examine your life choices, not the little ones but the major ones, you will see that freewill had very little to do with it. If you look at life like eating an artichoke, peeling away the layers so that you can get to the heart of it, you will see that at the very core of our actions -- what we think of as freewill -- there are no choices, and there is little or no freewill, only biology driving us.

If you choose to believe in freewill, that's fine. I will not seek to persuade you otherwise. Live long enough, however, and you may understand.

BTW, an dnot to change the subject, the other day I met a woman who had traveled from NY to California in her Benz veggie oil burner. she produly stated that she only paid a few bucks for diesel fuel. She said that in most places she just used free, "waste" veggie oil from restaurants and fast food places. Her car gave out a distinctive, and very appealing, french fries smell.

I am very sorry I sold my old diesel.

MS Fowler · #**158** 06-04-2006, 09:47 AM

[QUOTE=BENZ-LGB]It is not a new concept. Many philosophers have expressed similar views and have had similar thoughts.

You only think you do...if you honestly and dispassionately examine your life choices, not the little ones but the major ones, you will see that freewill had very little to do with it. If you look at life like eating an artichoke, peeling away the layers so that you can get to the heart of it, you will see that at the very core of our actions -- what we think of as freewill -- there are no choices, and there is little or no freewill, only biology driving us.

If you choose to believe in freewill, that's fine. I will not seek to persuade you otherwise. Live long enough, however, and you may understand.

Very interesting concept......
Yet if a Calvinist expresses the view that man has no free will, he is often criticized.

Botnst · #**159** 06-04-2006, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

...
Yet if a Calvinist expresses the view that man has no free will, he is often criticized.

It's knee-jerk reaction by anti-religionists whose minds close when faith is mentioned.

Concerning Calvinist predestination, I don't think it has anything to do with genes, does it? I mean, if genes are the determiner of predestination, then a mutation changes destiny. Oh I see, God predetermined which gene would mutate at exactly that moment. Wow.

Is this argument based on God's omnipotency? He created everything and it goes exactly according to his plan. To have things NOT go according to plan would mean that God is not omnipotent. Etc.

Does this mean that God is incapable of creating a universe that could surprise him? If so, that is a limitation of God's power.

Bot

BENZ-LGB · #**160** 06-04-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

It's knee-jerk reaction by anti-religionists whose minds close when faith is mentioned. Bot

Incidentally (and I know that Bot's comment was not necessarily meant at me) I am not closed-minded when it comes to matters of faith. Faith is faith, you either have it or you don't. I respect people who have faith -- I don't always respect some of the things that they do in the name of their faith.

I am, however, anti-religion. I've seen what atrocities have been committed, and continued to be committed, in the name of religion (any religion all religions). Dogmatism is anathema to the concept of a free spirit.

I think that I would have liked to have met Jesus. And I admired him the most when he had his most human-like moment, at the cross where even he questioned God's plan ("why have you forsaken me?").

If the son of god can have doubts, however fleeting, about his father's plan then he is A-OK with me and it certainly justifies my own doubting.

I am, however, closed-minded on two subjects:

1. People who hurt other people, especially children -- fry them I say.
2. And communism, and the atrocities it has has caused in my native Cuba (and elsewhere) -- I say fry all communists and their apologists. And I do extend my contempt and hatred to all dictators and oppressors. But that is the subject of a different thread altogether.

I do miss Calvin and Hobbes

Matt SD300 · #**161** 06-04-2006, 07:20 PM

BENZ-LGB Quote:...You only think you do...if you honestly and dispassionately examine your life choices, not the little ones but the major ones, you will see that freewill had very little to do with it. If you look at life like eating an artichoke, peeling away the layers so that you can get to the heart of it, you will see that at the very core of our actions -- what we think of as freewill -- there are no choices, and there is little or no freewill, only biology driving us.
_________________________________________________________________

What a.. BOLD FACE LIE!

I make hundreds... if not thousands of choices EVERDAY

And I'm accountable for everyone of them. It was "MY" choice to respond to your post...NOT BIOLODGY

What are running from... that makes YOU NOT WANT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE for your actions?

One more thing.. I cant figure out is why It bothers "YOU" if someone hurts or kills a child??

According to you we have NO FREE WILL... so why get mad at the perpetrator? The killer/molester didn't have a choice & therefor there is "NO RIGHT OR WRONG" according to YOU! YOUR belief in "NO FREE WILL" is PURE... LUNACY!!

Oh yeah...running my car & truck off of waste veggie oil is lots of fun.

If you would like more info on running veggi oil..Email me I would be glad to help

BENZ-LGB · #**162** 06-04-2006, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

It was "MY" choice to respond to your post...NOT BIOLODGY

No, it was your desire to be argumentative (and I mean argumentative in the nicest possible way, I like to argue too). You couldn't help yourself, even if you wanted to.

Just like you will not be able to avoid responding to this post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

What are running from... that makes YOU NOT WANT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE for your actions?

I am still accountable for my actions, regardless of the source of my motivation. I bear direct responsibility for every one of my actions, regardless of what compels/drives me to do it.

There is a big difference between the compulsion/motivation for doing an act and responsibility for the consequences of that act.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt300SD

One more thing.. I cant figure out is why It bothers "YOU" if someone hurts or kills a child??

Because it is wrong, regardless of the motivation: freewill or biology. There are absolute rights and wrongs, regardless of motive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt300SD

According to you we have NO FREE WILL... so why get mad at the perpetrator? The killer/molester didn't have a choice & therefor there is "NO RIGHT OR WRONG" according to YOU! YOUR belief in "NO FREE WILL" is PURE... LUNACY!!

You are confusing apples and oranges.

The actions that you believe are the result of "freewill" are simply the expression of a genetic memory hardwired into the very fiber of our being. You think that you are exercising freewill when in fact the programming hardwired into your genetic make-up, through thousand and thousands of years of human existence. We are our biology.

In the animal kingdom a lion kills an impala (if it can catch it) because he is hungry. That's biology at work. If a pack of hungry hyenas, circles around the lion and its kill, the lion may walk away, to avoid getting into a fight with the hyenas.

What appears as freewill on the part of the lion (running away from the murderous hyenas) is simply biology: "live to fight another day."

We are not that much different from the lion.

If you make the punishment for hurting children (or pick whatever crime you wish) painful enough, a different kind of biology will come into play: avoidance of pain.

Your belief in freewill makes as little sense to me as my belief in biology makes to you.

I'll leave it at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt300SD

Oh yeah...running my car & truck off of waste veggie oil is lots of fun.

If you would like more info on running veggi oil..Email me I would be glad to help

I would like to see the day when we stop depending on extortionist foreigners for our fuel needs.

Peace out!

Matt SD300 · #**163** 06-04-2006, 11:53 PM

BENZ-LGB...Your a full blown WACK JOB!

That being said...I have also enjoyed your responses to my posts

Email me sometime and we can talk Veggie.

Take care & God Bless

BENZ-LGB · #**164** 06-05-2006, 01:26 AM

See, I was right, you couldn't resist responding....

I'll touch basis with you on the veggie thing. I am so tired of putting money in the wrong people's pocket

Biology or freewill, it doesn't matter, I just don't like being held over a barrel.

Botnst · #**165** 06-05-2006, 08:14 AM

The argument about predestination always devolves into a form of solipsism.

But ya'll knew I was going to say that.