Much more accurate, Botnst. Thank you. Of course the main problem is that I cannot muster the faith to believe things that I think to be false. I'm not in Wonderland, after all.

A264172, it's a tale grown over several hundred years after the death of Jesus. None of the people who actually penned the gospels met the man, but nonetheless almost certainly believed that they were writing the truth of their lore.

As, perhaps, did the others who's bits were left out. Cooked and spoonfed does not imply nutrition. But it might be expected by the faithfull with sound reason or hope.
I think it comes down to a question of whether you believe that the people here before us were lower down on an evolutionary or developmental ladder than we are now, or that they were our equals or superiors.
If they were/are lower down then it's no loss to 'write them off'. But if they were our equals or our superiors then the question 'what were they trying to say in their simple fashion?' becomes one worthy of consideration.

As evolution has no aim, there is no such question to be asked.

We're later on the evolutionary scale. That's as far as it goes.

Matt L (QUOTE)....it's a tale grown over several hundred years after the death of Jesus. None of the people who actually penned the gospels met the man, but nonetheless almost certainly believed that they were writing the truth of their lore
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WHAT A BOLD FACE LIE!..:rolleyes:

Mathew, Mark, Luke & John...THE FOUR GOSPELS...Were written by his disciples. The four writers spent 3 years with him before... THEY SAW HIM CRUCIFIED and THEY ALSO SAW AFTER HIS RESERECTION. ...Historical FACT

YOUR case for disbelief in God & impossibility's is based on a pack of lies....NOT HISTORICAL FACT! :eek:

But ya see the TRUTH is not important to You....If it was you would have not made such a BOLD FACE LIE ? :confused:

_________________________________________________________________
Well....According to the WHITE HOUSE he was the first President of the USA!

Hey..but what do they know? http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/

Jeez, this is just too easy.

I hereby bet you 1 million dollars that Geogre Washinton was never president of the United States.:rolleyes:

dito that part

While we may have evolved in subtle ways over the last 3000 years, that was probably a bad choice of word on my part.
"Do you think they are our equals or inferiors or superiors?" is more appropriate. Their are many practices they have passed down to us... some that you use without question every day. No?

I find it fascinating to observe the scorn placed on people who lived before us. What arrogance to assume that they were ignorant while we are possessed of great skills of reasoning!
Newton was a pretty smart guy. I appreciate anyone who can master the calculus; I marvel at the genius it required to invent it in the first place.
Plato and Aristotle were not too shaaby, either.
The ancient Egyptians managed to do OK without the benefit of modern thinking.

The lore is important to you. The truth is important to me.

You have no lock on the truth. Get over yourself.

Newton's goal was to produce algebraic equations that worked, while hiding the source of his inspirations. He published the calculus when he learned that Lebnitz had independantly discovered it as well, and didn't want his thunder stolen.

Nobody knows which of the two really discovered it first, but it's common knowledge in mathematical circles that Lebnitz had the intentions of publishing this very powerful tool, while Newton chose to use it for only his own gain.

Its not about "ME" :confused:

It's about "HIM"... Its YOUR GOD GIVEN CHOICE TO REJECT HIM.

What is bothersome is when "YOU" make up LIES to validate YOUR CHOICE ..:rolleyes:

All of your VALITY goes out the window...AKA ..Whack Job :silly: :silly:

I have full respect for someone who has been introduced to the Gospel and has choose not accept the Gospel.

I have NO RESPECT IN ONE THAT SPREADS LIES ABOUT THE GOSPEL. :(

Back to the thread topic:

The Q. was ...If you died today,..Why would God let you into heaven?

If you don't believe in God ....no need to respond.. This thread only pertains to believers in a God & Heaven.

Huh?....

Who was talking to you, and what are you talking about?...

:confused:

Mike

Says who?

The original post didn't say anything about "believers only". :rolleyes:

I'll say it again: It's a ridiculous question, so no one should be surprised at the large number of ridiculous responses.

Mike

I'll double that bet. ;)

Geogre Washington was definitely not the 1st President... nor was he EVER President.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I think the thread is going quit nicely!;)

Its not about me.. or you.. or those that LOVE or HATE GOD.....It's much bigger than that.:D

With that QUOTE...nor was he ever President..Proves that your a straight up, off the hook,.. WHACK JOB:silly: :silly: & the TRUTH is not in you!

Thanks for some Validity on your character

Hahaha.... Nice try (again).....

But actually, the joke is on you.

The only thing it proves is.......

YOU CAN'T SPELL, and we've been poking fun at you for it all this time!!!!

Here, let me help you out: GEOGRE Washington. Get it?.....

Perhaps you should tone down the evangelism for a minute and read a little more carefully, "Pastor Matt".

:rolleyes:

Mike

Here, let me help you out: GEOGRE Washington. Get it?.....

Mike ...good one...LOL..:D

I always love a good laugh..:D

Finally!

Mike

Then you'd best lose your respect for the church! Please do some research into this, rather than blindly believing what you have been told.

Not quite....

George Washinton was never president either.....;)

wound a little tight there matt? Here's a little reading for you.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html

Because I drive a W124 - thought I saw something about that in the Old Testament - I think it was next to the "don't eat pork" part.

That was a mistranslation. It should have read, "don't eat with a fork." God has been wringing his hands over it. All these years, people gowin'ta hell for fork!

What one eats has nothing to do with getting into HEAVEN. :D

Calling BENZ300,
 

We need to have you introduced to BENZ300 ..... ("Those interested in reading Quran" thread)

for a calm, reasoned discussion on these kinds of issues
:scholar: :mgwhore2: :rocketwho

Sorry ...I'm not into debating a RELIGION THAT PROMOTES CHOPPING PEOPLES HEADS OFF IN THE NAME of there god..:silly:

So...Whats the odds of JESUS FULFILLING PROPHECY???

His odds of fulfilling of only 48 prophecies is a MIND BOGGLEING NUMBER! :eek:

And to think HE fulfilled over 300 prophecies..The bible standard for proficy is it has to be 100% accurate )

Do the research for yourself on Goggle:

The odds of Jesus fulfilling prophecy....http://susansstudy.blogspot.com/2006/03/mathematical-odds-of-jesus-fulfilling.html

If anyone IS LOOKING for more evidence that the Bible is telling the truth...
Check out this book...Evidence that demands a verdict...By Josh McDowell

Uh oh, here we go again:D

Calm down, guy...no need to say it twice....sheesh...

I'm a Episcopalian/Presbyterian but I don't feel Christianity has done so perfectly well in proselytising to the (especially non white) heathens.

People whose religions condone things like the Spanish Inquisition oughtn't to complain TOO loudly about other "religions chopping the (sic) heads off in the name of promoting there (sic) god"

I don't know what "mind boggleing" is and I don't know how to do research "on Goggle" (sic)

I confess that I lack the suave manner and sophisticated turn of phrase of Bot,:scholar: so I hope he sees fit to weigh in on this

Yep. My thoughts exactly upon reading this latest rant.

Also, you left out the Crusades, the Salem witch hunts (and others), abortion clinic bombers, beatings of gay people, and let's not forget the astoundingly moronic rock and roll "backwards masking/subliminal satanic messages" craze of the late 70s/early 80s "christians"......

ALL religions have numerous embarrassing episodes in their history... It's really quite amusing when I hear of one religion pointing an accusing finger at another.... How short and selective their collective memories are!

Mike

A target-rich environment.

This is a pointless, trivial argument. On the one side, God's Holy Writ is perfect, cannot be proven wrong because That Which Made The Universe is entirely capable of empowering somebody to perform miracles, stopping the planet for a day to allow an army time to win a battle, cut a slice through the Red Sea allowing slaves to escape and then drowning a pursing army. I mean look, creating the universe is a whole different scale of problem from making lame people walk, okay?

If the Bible is a collection of wisdom, fairy tales, and myths, that gives comfort to billions of people in their darkest hour, why deprive people of their dreams?

You believe only that which is demonstrably real and causal. Other people do not limit themselves to reality. There is no possibility of reconciling these two world views.

B

Mikes Quote:..
Also, you left out the Crusades, the Salem witch hunts (and others), abortion clinic bombers, beatings of gay people,
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The TRUTH is people KILL other people in the name of GOD EVERYDAY!..:eek:

The Bible is very clear on on this...Thou shall NOT KILL ...LOVE your Enemies..Turn the other CHEEK and so on...:D

If one MURDERS someone in the name of CRISTIANTY...the fact is the TRUTH is not in them..Because THERE act go's against EVERYTHING the Bible TEACHES!.. unlike the QORAN that promotes KILLING..:eek:

Mike... there's no need to post excuses why you reject CHRIST...its your CHOICE and is respected!.;)

Never said I needed an excuse.

I'm just posting the facts...

To borrow your ridiculous, mentally pre-programmed mantra, "You can either accept them or reject them. It's your choice."

:rolleyes:

Mike

According to the OT, you're only supposed to kill the men. And only the men who belong to your enemies population.

For someone who so loudly professes its absolute truth, you seem to not be very acquainted with the text within.

Hmmm . . .
 

Weren't we originally discussing why God would let you into heaven, and the merits of Christina Applegate in a neat-o Catholic school uniform? Methinks we done drifted.

Matt SD300, let's face it, you undo your cause with the Caps Lock and quotes keys. Anytime I see a post with unnecessary CAPS, or "quote marks" around WORDS that don't "need" to "be" in quotes, I lose "all" interest.

Form is important, and if you're going to reach people, you shouldn't turn 'em off with online shouting or snickering -- which, IMO, is what CAPS and "quote marks" look like.

(P.S.: Proper spelling helps too.)
.

Yep.

Last time I checked, there were several free automatic spell-checker programs available for download...

I guess he's too busy rehearsing his pre-scripted righteous-guy responses to get around to it.

Mike

I have to agree. Poor spelling is often a sign of an undisciplined mind.
It is not possible to convince someone against their will. I try to provide some rebuttal to mere unsubstantiated allegations, but the idea that I will argue someone into heaven is a bit of a stretch. If, as the Scripture says, the eyes of the natural man are blind, they cannot see. Can they?. Arguing never made a blind man see.

Such is also the case for a rationalist. I will not try to convince someone to abandon religion, as it is a pointless task. Unfortunately, religion does affect my life, and there's nothing I can do about it.

And at over 2900 veiws on this tread in only three weeks what can I say.... Praise the LORD!...:D

Ya now whats funny?..A few of you folks think I'm a Bible thumping in your face kinda guy.....But you would be soooo wrong! I know its not my job to convict a person's heart...Forgive me if I have come a cross that way...I'm more of a regular kind of guy... than the name I have been given on this forum "Paster Matt"...I do take it as GREAT COMPLEMENT though.:)

From: http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=198

"Beyond any social utility these chapters may possess, it suits my temperament to study indefensible pretensions and to note how they cause intelligent people to shut off their critical faculties and resort to cultlike behavior. Sometimes amusing, sometimes appalling, such deviousness strikes me as quintessentially human behavior. But I don’t mean to set myself apart as a paragon of reasonableness. Having made a large intellectual misstep in younger days, I am aware that rationality isn’t an endowment but an achievement that can come undone at any moment. And that is just why it is prudent, in my opinion, to distrust sacrosanct authorities, whether academic or psychiatric or ecclesiastic, and to put one’s faith instead in objective procedures that can place a check on our never sated appetite for self-deception.

Several decades of untranquil experience in the public arena, however, have led me to anticipate only limited success in getting this point across. To put it mildly, the public in an age of born-again Rapture, Intelligent Design, miscellaneous guru worship, and do-it-yourself “spirituality” isn’t exactly hungering for an across-the-board application of rational principles. And the culturally slumming, trend-conscious postmodern academy, far from constituting a stay against popular credulity, affords a parodic mirror image of it. That is the condition I illustrate in Chapter 11, on tales of UFO kidnapping: for opposite reasons, guileless “abductees” and supercilious Theory mongers show the same imperviousness to considerations of mundane plausibility.

A student who signs up for a literature major today, having never been encouraged to think independently and skeptically, may graduate two years later without having made any headway in that direction. That is regrettable enough. But if the student then goes on to earn a Ph.D. in the same field, he or she will probably have acquired a storehouse of arcane terms and concepts allowing that disability to appear both intellectually and politically advanced. Here is tomorrow’s tenured professor, more impervious than any freshman to the “naive” heresy that theories can be overturned by facts."

Actually, while I find the story you recount interesting, Carleton's post did not strike me as similar to that at all.

Actually, I'm unsurprised.

Your story involved a mad-man pulling people down. Carleton's missive in no way indicated restraint of other's aspirations -- just urged caution in their wanderings.

You're a bright fellow. Like many bright fellows, you've become a little too convinced of the primacy of the workings of your mind.

You'd know. You have that uncanny telepathy thingy that reveals the hearts of Man.

It's an old and subtle skill. What I do is read people's words and do my best to discern the meaning they were trying to convey..... rather than just using their words as a platform for my own bloviating.

because I have a huge rack?:silly:

Huge rack?...Hows that going to get you Gods favor? I see lots of racks everyday...never thought of them as Holy & Righteous...just racks.. mostly on pickup trucks.. not many on Mercedes..:confused: