Just don't F with the Jews - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #61 07-26-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

The "kill all jews everywhere" contingent is seriously whacked. Those people need to get a grip. Still, if the question for Israel is how to live in peace, not sure that this response will bear fruit.

Thery're so rigid and self-righteous. I hear reasonable sounding Arab scholars on the tube claim that Israel has thousands of Arab youth and adults in prison, many of whom, it is claimed, don't have blood on their hands. After seeing the lunacy of Gitmo, where only 5% of detainess were captured by our forces on the field of battle, the rest turned over by bounty hunters, essentially -- Israel and us share so much in techniques and tactics, I'm wondering if there's not some truth to it.

Given Israel's policy of overwhelming response, I wouldn't be surprised if that includes overwhelming detensions as well. "So we get a few wrong. So what's the big deal?" Israel will never entertain the notion that some of their detainees perhaps should be released. Giving into terrorists, etc., etc., etc.

And since "the terrorists" use ambulances or fake U.N. posts as cover, let's bomb any ambulance moving. Might be missiles in there, sonny. And the U.N. Post....'damn U.N.'s never been with us anyway.'

Well, if the starting offer of 95% of what they are asking for in return for all the stoppage of attacks doesn't work plus a cessation of suicide bombings for 2 weeks, what would work?

Gee, arab scholars claim that? Of course they would. Did they supply proof of that? How are we defining "blood on their hands"? If you gave shelter to a known suicide bomber, would you consider yourself having blood on your hands even if you didn't plan, arm, etc, etc the guy with the bomb vest? I would.

Overwhelming response as in what? For 2 soldiers kidnapped and several killed? Yes, I agree with you it is excessive. However, lets look in the back for a bit. Lets see what has been brewing for a while before we consider it excessive. You seem to be so supportive of the UN and all it stands for so why don't you tell me about UN resolution 1559 and how successful it has been?

Nobody even knows what happened there. The investigation hasn't even come and we have a conclusion? In war, people get shot up. Mistakes happen. Friendly Fire happens. Should it? No. Does it? You bet. Now, if you had evidence that an order came from high up to bomb a UN post, lets talk. However, we don't since the investigation hasn't even started, AFAIK.

aklim · #62 07-26-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

You're a nice guy, man.... too bad you don't get the part about "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

Did you apply that to Lebanon and Hezbollah too or is it just us?

aklim · #63 07-26-2006, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Dude, do you reside atop a warehouse of rose-colored glasses? Both nations have eventually rewarded those who played ball with them. Both have dealt out death, terror, and indignity to those who tried to stand their ground against them.

Figure it out: everyone thinks that they and their's are the righteous and the holy above all others. It's an instinctive response that comes just after the urge to look for a nipple squirting warm milk.

Your study is seriously incomplete.

The let me complete it for you. Every nation does it. That is par for the course. I have seen smaller nations that try muscle in on others. Even in the third world. So what of it? This is kinda like complaining about getting wet standing in the rain.

aklim · #64 07-26-2006, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

And GB dealt out death and indignity to us for a long time, starting it up again in the next century. You like the happy ending? I imagine all sorts of American lads didn't consider being skewered by a vastly better armed Brit to be a happy ending.

The WW2 stuff was guts and glory. Not everything that happens in the world is so clear cut. It's no coincidence that Latin America is not favourably disposed, shall we say, to the Yan-KEE. Our hands are far from clean there. Likewise for some African nations and you're favorite happy ending: Vietnam. Brought peace, democracy, and tranqulity to that nation, we did.

It has been such since who knows when and will be that way for years more even if we didn't go into Iraq. GB isn't that great that he can do that.

If you believe that our goal was to bring peace and democracy to that country, you got to be kidding. We were there just for our own goals like everyone else is. I don't believe the stated goals any more than the used car salesman. Bottom line is we do it because at this point, it looks like the best thing to do. There is no way to do a long term projection since things are so fluid so it is all in the here and now.

aklim · #65 07-26-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Some of it is due to our being the top dog and ruthlessly leveraging that position to get the king's cut out of every country we "help" (ourselves to). Not that being top dog is necessarily evil, but one needs to be careful with that kind of power.

American at 5% of the world's population doesn't consume 35-40% of the world's resources by accident.

Why are you so concerned with that? Ever see the pic of fish where a big fish is eating a smaller fish who is eating an even smaller fish all the way to a minow? It is par for the course. If you don't like it, leave the country. Find a smaller fish and stay there. When you see that they are using their position to leverage another group, leave there. If you keep going, you might end up in a place where they won't do that.

Well, when you consider that many places are agriculture based and non producing of anything, it might explain it. Besides, we are reaping what we sowed from decades past of work, as you explained.

GottaDiesel · #66 07-26-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Why are you so concerned with that? Ever see the pic of fish where a big fish is eating a smaller fish who is eating an even smaller fish all the way to a minow? It is par for the course. If you don't like it, leave the country. Find a smaller fish and stay there. When you see that they are using their position to leverage another group, leave there. If you keep going, you might end up in a place where they won't do that.

Well, when you consider that many places are agriculture based and non producing of anything, it might explain it. Besides, we are reaping what we sowed from decades past of work, as you explained.

See the thread with Jewfish.

They change colors and eat people.

aklim · #67 07-26-2006, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

See the thread with Jewfish.

They change colors and eat people.

Is there a Muslimfish or are they related? OBL gladly took our money and intelligence and then turned on us.

Bottom line, as I said before, it is about today. If our interests are common TODAY we are friends. If not, we might fight. Tomorrow is a different story. Tomorrow, you might be dealing with someone else holding the same position as I WAS.

cmac2012 · #68 07-26-2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Well, if the starting offer of 95% of what they are asking for in return for all the stoppage of attacks doesn't work plus a cessation of suicide bombings for 2 weeks, what would work?

Gee, arab scholars claim that? Of course they would. Did they supply proof of that? How are we defining "blood on their hands"? If you gave shelter to a known suicide bomber, would you consider yourself having blood on your hands even if you didn't plan, arm, etc, etc the guy with the bomb vest? I would.

Overwhelming response as in what? For 2 soldiers kidnapped and several killed? Yes, I agree with you it is excessive. However, lets look in the back for a bit. Lets see what has been brewing for a while before we consider it excessive. You seem to be so supportive of the UN and all it stands for so why don't you tell me about UN resolution 1559 and how successful it has been?

Nobody even knows what happened there. The investigation hasn't even come and we have a conclusion? In war, people get shot up. Mistakes happen. Friendly Fire happens. Should it? No. Does it? You bet. Now, if you had evidence that an order came from high up to bomb a UN post, lets talk. However, we don't since the investigation hasn't even started, AFAIK.

Proof of whether or not any of the detainees Israel holds are innocent would be very difficult for anyone to prove. If Israel resists even looking at the question, it'll be tougher yet. They think they're enhancing their security by holding them.

We'll never know for certain how much new hostility is the result of family members outraged at the long prison terms for their family members they consider to be innocent. Does the benefit of keeping whatever percentage of these detainees that are guilty locked up outweigh the outrage generated by the lockups in total? Sounds like a recipe for 1,000 years of war to me.

cmac2012 · #69 07-26-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Did you apply that to Lebanon and Hezbollah too or is it just us?

We have 20/20 vision when it comes to the transgressions of others, specially Ay-rabs. To ours, we're blind. Much easier to correct our own behavior than someone else's.

cmac2012 · #70 07-26-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It has been such since who knows when and will be that way for years more even if we didn't go into Iraq. GB isn't that great that he can do that.

If you believe that our goal was to bring peace and democracy to that country, you got to be kidding. We were there just for our own goals like everyone else is. I don't believe the stated goals any more than the used car salesman. Bottom line is we do it because at this point, it looks like the best thing to do. There is no way to do a long term projection since things are so fluid so it is all in the here and now.

Slow down chief. GB = Great Britain in that post. Check the context.

Bottom line: looked like the best thing to do to some. They looking wrong at this point.

Botnst · #71 07-26-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

We have 20/20 vision when it comes to the transgressions of others, specially Ay-rabs. To ours, we're blind. Much easier to correct our own behavior than someone else's.

We have 20/20 vision concerning our own mistakes--that's what a free press and elections are designed to address. It's just that some people fixate myopically on the bad way out of proportion to the good, to the point that they cannot speak of good without temporizing.

BENZ-LGB · #72 07-26-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaDiesel

See the thread with Jewfish.

They change colors and eat people.

So now you are attributing the characteristics of a fish to a group of people...

If it was meant in jest, I personally don't find it very funny (not as funny as your line about picking cucarachas out od Sharon's nose anyway).

If it was a serious comparison...it is just

BENZ-LGB · #73 07-26-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

We have 20/20 vision concerning our own mistakes--that's what a free press and elections are designed to address. It's just that some people fixate myopically on the bad way out of proportion to the good, to the point that they cannot speak of good without temporizing.

I like your use of myopia in this context. It is most appropriate.

Myopia, plust the use of industrial-strength blinders keep people from seeing the good that is in America.

I don't think that even the most rabid, right wing conservative would ever go as far as saying that America is perfect.

The opposite, however, is not the case. Rabid, left-wing, American-haters will never, ever, say anything good about the country or the current government.

It is always: bad this, bad that, bad, bad, bad.

No wonder that the better educated and better off financially conservatives seem to be happier (according to the Pew poll).

BENZ-LGB · #74 07-26-2006, 03:07 PM

Here are excerpts of an interview conducted by Der Spiegel and the Lebanese PM.

In his answers, you will see the root of the problem.

1. Palestinians,i n spite of their alleged horrible living condiitons, have a huge birthrate, 3x times that of the Lebanese people.

2. The Lebanese PM will not admit that Lebanon's failure to follow the mandate of the U.N. resolution that led to Israel's withdrawal is fueling the current crisis. Israel took the Lebanese gov't at its word and w/ithdrew from southern Lebanon, thus giving up a huge saftey buffer zone.

3. The Lebanese PM sees Hezbollah as a conquering hero. He seems to think that Hezbollah's attacks on Israel forced Israel's withdrawal from soutern Lebanon. In fact, it was Israel's good faith and desire for peace that motivated the withdrawal. But Israel's enemies will never see it that way.

Here is a link to the interview:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,428391,00.html

aklim · #75 07-26-2006, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Proof of whether or not any of the detainees Israel holds are innocent would be very difficult for anyone to prove. If Israel resists even looking at the question, it'll be tougher yet. They think they're enhancing their security by holding them.

We'll never know for certain how much new hostility is the result of family members outraged at the long prison terms for their family members they consider to be innocent. Does the benefit of keeping whatever percentage of these detainees that are guilty locked up outweigh the outrage generated by the lockups in total? Sounds like a recipe for 1,000 years of war to me.

So what is it you suggest? Open the jail doors and let them all run loose? Go to a US prision. I'll bet most the inmates are there because of some trumped up charge. Few are guilty even if they were found with a bloody knife in their hand.

When the hostilities cease, as in war, you can talk of a POW release with certain conditions like never returning or whatever. However, before they are willing to stop their bombing, what do you suggest anybody do? They can't even stop for 14 days to talk. What do you expect anybody to do?