How Do We "Win" a War on Terror? - Page 14 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mistress · #**196** 08-23-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

In response to the question, I have a question. How far do you intend to go to win? OBL and Co are willing to do whatever it takes. Are we? He is going into a fight with everything he has. Do we have the stones for that or are we going to go with one arm and leg tied behind our backs?

Aklim- Me thinks this war will go on until the next administration.....

Maroon 300D · #**197** 08-23-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Kill faster? Look at the buffalo. We wiped them out to almost extinction.

Depends on whether you are willing to do whatever it takes to win or whether you are trying to play by a set of rules nobody follows.

So genocide is the answer? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to hear you endorsing that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And if they pick up the slack, are they going to do it in a way that benifits us? I doubt it. Why would they? Would we? I wouldn't.

In any case, you just decribed the fairy tale world. Remember Little Red Riding Hood? The wolf bothered her and the woodcutter came and killed the wolf and never asked for a reward or anything and LRRH lived happily ever after. In our case, we are hoping that China and India pick up the slack, leave us to live happily ever after and they will go away once the problem is solved. Yeah, right.

It doesn't matter if they pick up the slack. The point is that if we don't need their oil we are far less involved in that messy region.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Great idea. Old but great. It worked so well in Afghanistan. Remember OBL? He took our intelligence, money and most importantly, stinger missiles. Without those stingers, the Russian choppers would have chopped them away to bits of flesh. Did they remember us with fondness? Doubtful. If we did it, they would assume we are tryin to buy them off. If Hezbollah did it, it is muslim charity and thus free of taint.

Those Stinger missiles were delivered late in the game. The jihadists knew all about them from the beginning and were practically begging for them from what I understand of that conflict. They were not delivered until late because we (correctly) estimated that they would turn the tide and the Russians' days in Afghanistan would be numbered once the Stingers came into play. We wanted Russia in Afghanistan as long as possible because it was a money pit for them. It worked out for us better than we could have hoped.

We acted in our own self interest and so did everyone else in that conflict. Gratitude doesn't come into play.

aklim · #**198** 08-23-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

So genocide is the answer? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised to hear you endorsing that.

It doesn't matter if they pick up the slack. The point is that if we don't need their oil we are far less involved in that messy region.

We acted in our own self interest and so did everyone else in that conflict. Gratitude doesn't come into play.

And the other side is really interested in what? Dinner and a cup of coffee? If that is what it takes to survive, so be it. What are they looking for? Are they going to be satisfied with anything but total victory? Would they care how they achieved it? Think if we pacify them with one or two items they will be satisfied? If so, for how long? This is just like giving in to a blackmailer. It never ends.

So let me ask you this question since nobody has answered it. IF I found an oil source in Texas or somewhere in the USA that could supply all the oil we need for 100 years, will that solve the problem if others cannot get the oil but us? According to you, that is the answer. According to me, it isn't. We cannot solve the problem by us not needing the oil. The problem isn't that. The problem is that if the others tank, so do we. Let me also ask you this. If we were neighbours and my house was decrepit nd falling around my ears and a health hazzard, would you just mind your own business since it is my property? I'll bet you won't even if I am 5 houses down the street since your business will affect me.

That is one way of looking at it. So why are the Hezbollah looked upon so good? Think it is because they truely care or is it because they are buying support like we were in Afghanistan?

peragro · #**199** 08-23-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

And beyond.....

Especially so if the next administration essentially surrenders. Then look for things to get really bad.

aklim · #**200** 08-23-2006, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

Especially so if the next administration essentially surrenders. Then look for things to get really bad.

The problem is that we (the west) wants a nice neat solution that doesn't take much to get but pays off big. They are willing to lay it all on the line and do whatever it takes. If OBL had a nuke, he'd use it already. However, we don't ahve the guts to do whatever it takes but want to play anyways.

mercmad6.3 · #**201** 08-23-2006, 05:12 PM

For those of you who would like to know the truth about what really happened to the population of lebanon read this.
http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=transcript&dte=2006-08-23&headlineid=1170
Take special note of the comments by former US Congressional aid and international LAw proffessor Franklin Lamb.
Once, more Americans with the caliber and backbone of Proffessor Lamb manage to expose the true extent of the lies perpetrated in the name of the American peoples then ,just perhaps,the World will see a lasting peace.
Maybe it's already happening.This from Russ Feingold...(oy! a Jew yet!)
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/08/22/us-senator-russ-feingold-rips-pile-of-lies-on-iraq/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.madison.com%2Ftct%2Fmad%2Ftopstories%2Findex.php%3Fntid%3D95688%26ntpid%3D0&frame=true

450slcguy · #**202** 08-23-2006, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

For those of you who would like to know the truth about what really happened to the population of lebanon read this.
http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=transcript&dte=2006-08-23&headlineid=1170
Take special note of the comments by former US Congressional aid and international LAw proffessor Franklin Lamb.
Once, more Americans with the caliber and backbone of Proffessor Lamb manage to expose the true extent of the lies perpetrated in the name of the American peoples then ,just perhaps,the World will see a lasting peace.
Maybe it's already happening.This from Russ Feingold...(oy! a Jew yet!)

No one likes to see innocent civilins killed, but that's a consequence of the civilian population and Lebenese goverment supporting and encouraging Hezzbala. Have them innocent civlians stop harboring Hezzbala, they incited this war by shooting rockets, digging tunnels and kidnapping soldiers. Why is Hezzbala allowed to exist in that so called soverign nation? Why do the Lebenese people support a terroristic self imposed militia? Stop Islamic religious biggotry against Isreal and the US , that will bring peace. Concentrate on being peacefull human beings respecting the rights and customs of all religions, like we do here in the US. Otherwise there will be no peace but alot more war.

aklim · #**203** 08-23-2006, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

For those of you who would like to know the truth about what really happened to the population of lebanon read this.
http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/index.php?page=transcript&dte=2006-08-23&headlineid=1170
Take special note of the comments by former US Congressional aid and international LAw proffessor Franklin Lamb.
Once, more Americans with the caliber and backbone of Proffessor Lamb manage to expose the true extent of the lies perpetrated in the name of the American peoples then ,just perhaps,the World will see a lasting peace.

Maybe it's already happening.This from Russ Feingold...(oy! a Jew yet!)
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/08/22/us-senator-russ-feingold-rips-pile-of-lies-on-iraq/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.madison.com%2Ftct%2Fmad%2Ftopstories%2Findex.php%3Fntid%3D95688%26ntpid%3D0&frame=true

How do you know that one is the truth as opposed to say CNN, FOX, BBC, etc, etc? Yep, he has calibre and backbone because he is on your track? So if I found a source that sided with what I believe, that is the truth? If it doesn't, it is a lie? Really? Still mad that your head man shunted money from a program you liked to a program you didn't like?

Yes, it is a bad thing that lebanon got bombed. Maybe you could contact hezbollah and have them put up a black flag where their buildings are and where the others are, put up a white flag. That way the Isreali bombs will fall only on Hezbollah. What if I told you that your PM has people in his cabinet that are say child molesters or murderers? Would that sit well with you? How about if I tell you that Hezbollah has at least 2 members on the cabinet. Yeah, innocent my ass.

Maroon 300D · #**204** 08-23-2006, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And the other side is really interested in what? Dinner and a cup of coffee? If that is what it takes to survive, so be it. What are they looking for? Are they going to be satisfied with anything but total victory? Would they care how they achieved it? Think if we pacify them with one or two items they will be satisfied? If so, for how long? This is just like giving in to a blackmailer. It never ends.

So let me ask you this question since nobody has answered it. IF I found an oil source in Texas or somewhere in the USA that could supply all the oil we need for 100 years, will that solve the problem if others cannot get the oil but us? According to you, that is the answer. According to me, it isn't. We cannot solve the problem by us not needing the oil. The problem isn't that. The problem is that if the others tank, so do we. Let me also ask you this. If we were neighbours and my house was decrepit nd falling around my ears and a health hazzard, would you just mind your own business since it is my property? I'll bet you won't even if I am 5 houses down the street since your business will affect me.

That is one way of looking at it. So why are the Hezbollah looked upon so good? Think it is because they truely care or is it because they are buying support like we were in Afghanistan?

It's true that there will still be problems in the Middle East if we stop buying oil there. It's true that to some extent those problems will effect us. But it is not true that they would effect us to the degree they do today.

There are lots of problems in central Africa. Look at the Congo, for instance. How come we're not sending troops there? It's because our national interest is not at stake no matter how many Congolese die.

I'm not saying we shouldn't care, but our ability to influence what happens outside our borders is limited. We are therefore better off if it becomes less important for us to influence things outside our borders. If we didn't give a lick about the oil that is there, the politics of that area would be less important to us.

It does sound to me like 'the other side' you speak of is all Muslims. Frankly I would rather be dead than have to explain my support of genocide to my future grandchildren.

I do not, however, think that all, most, or even a high percentage of Muslims are truly bad people. It's a small minority that plot our destruction. The challenge is to get rid of them and the environment that creates them, not to get rid of all people on that side of the planet.

mercmad6.3 · #**205** 08-23-2006, 06:37 PM

Keep eating that Mushroom food and keep America as the butt of world criticism...OR get away from the PC and get out look at the World.
You support the killing of innocents as long as Bush is in Power.
For those who see this as a religious matter,read your own bible and consider the matter more closely.
America ,as a nation has a lot to learn in the scheme of things,3000 dead on 9/11 have been more than avenged by the 30,000+ in Iraq and 1000+ in Lebanon don't you think?.
Time to stop Folks and really think..." am I responsible or do I start to question the very reasons for Bush's Support of Israel? ...Or do you keep posting inane rubbish on here."?

Botnst · #**206** 08-23-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

......Or do you keep posting inane rubbish on here."?

Looks like you've made your decision.

450slcguy · #**207** 08-23-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

Keep eating that Mushroom food and keep America as the butt of world criticism...OR get away from the PC and get out look at the World.
You support the killing of innocents as long as Bush is in Power.
For those who see this as a religious matter,read your own bible and consider the matter more closely.
America ,as a nation has a lot to learn in the scheme of things,3000 dead on 9/11 have been more than avenged by the 30,000+ in Iraq and 1000+ in Lebanon don't you think?.
Time to stop Folks and really think..." am I responsible or do I start to question the very reasons for Bush's Support of Israel? ...Or do you keep posting inane rubbish on here."?

Your idea of "innocent civilians" doesn't wash with mine.

Ten innocent civilians are standing on the street. The two gunman who just launched missles against "innocent civilians" are dressed just like the civilians on the street and join them. Now there are 12 "civilians" standing there. All ten of the innocent civilians know who the 2 gunmen are amongst them. No one will identify the gunmen or acknowledge the attack when the soldiers come to apprehend the attackers. They are no longer civilians, they are collaborators. Support the unsurgents and you are an insurgent. End of story.

450slcguy · #**208** 08-23-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercmad6.3

For those who see this as a religious matter,read your own bible and consider the matter more closely.

I don't have to read the Bible to know how to act civilized. This war is and always has been about religion. It's about Israels right to exist as a Democracy and as a Jewish state. Accept that fact and live with it because they aren't leaving.

In this country, the United States, we respect people of all religions. That includes Muslims, Jews, Christians, or whatever. We live in peace amongst each other and it works pretty damn good.

mikemover · #**209** 08-23-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

It does sound to me like 'the other side' you speak of is all Muslims. Frankly I would rather be dead than have to explain my support of genocide to my future grandchildren.

I do not, however, think that all, most, or even a high percentage of Muslims are truly bad people. It's a small minority that plot our destruction. The challenge is to get rid of them and the environment that creates them, not to get rid of all people on that side of the planet.

"Genocide" is a loaded, shock-value kind word, and it's obvious that you're aware of this, and are using it intentionally for that reason.

He never said, or implied "all Muslims". Does he think it is a good idea to exterminate ALL Muslims?... I seriously doubt it. Does he think it is a good idea to make every effort to exterminate all Muslim TERRORISTS and the radical, fanatical clerics who are calling them to action?.... I'd think yes.

And I agree with him.

You are correct that it is a very small minority that is causing the problems, and as is usually the case, it is giving the larger group a bad name.

What I DO have a gripe with concerning ALL Muslims is the noticeable lack of outrage from the "average" Muslims when these atrocities are committed by fanatics. These radicals are doing these terrible things "in the name if Islam", yet the criticism of those acts from the mainstream Muslims is scripted, muted, and half-hearted, at best. Where is the indignation? Where is the anger? Where are the "anti-extremist" protesters? Why are they not making their outrage known, PUBLICLY and LOUDLY, when terrorist commit horrible atrocities that tarnish the image and reputation of Muslims everywhere?....

Mike

Maroon 300D · #**210** 08-23-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

"Genocide" is a loaded, shock-value kind word, and it's obvious that you're aware of this, and are using it intentionally for that reason.

He never said, or implied "all Muslims". Does he think it is a good idea to exterminate ALL Muslims?... I seriously doubt it. Does he think it is a good idea to make every effort to exterminate all Muslim TERRORISTS and the radical, fanatical clerics who are calling them to action?.... I'd think yes.

And I agree with him.

You are correct that it is a very small minority that is causing the problems, and as is usually the case, it is giving the larger group a bad name....

Mike

Well earlier I asked him if he was endorsing genocide, and his response was: "if that is what it takes to survive, so be it."

Loaded word or not, it has a certain meaning. I wouldn't have brought it out if I didn't think that's what he was talking about.

In any event I expect we'll hear from aklim soon enough.