I'll have to share this exchange with Wayne. Well all except my "knucklehead" comment.

It`s been an honor for us in his district to have him there for us. I don`t believe there are many at all like him. We are indeed fortunate.

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300TD W124, Two VW TDI Passat Wagons,Cummins Ram 250, Kubota Tractor
23 cylinders sipping the sweet sauce of the soy bean

You`ll like this Bot; he brought E. O. Wilson to the Hill for a big hearing to get some of his republican collegues straight on some simple science.

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300TD W124, Two VW TDI Passat Wagons,Cummins Ram 250, Kubota Tractor
23 cylinders sipping the sweet sauce of the soy bean

Howitzer for mice.

Stongly disagree. Sit down with a freshman Congressman and see if you can get anything accomplished.

Dood. PBS ran a very detailed documentary on Jack Abramhoff last night. I strongly suggest that anyone interested in the financial corruption of Washington take a look. BTW, the most interesting part was on the Cua****a and their failed Casino in Texas--Abramhoff took millions from the Jesus Lobby to kill the Casino, and then millions more to try to open it back up. All paths led to Tom Delay of course. That guy obviously came here alot and makes K. Lay and B. Ebbers look like choirboys.

Wouldn't have figured you for a Warner fan.

Sounds to me like if we want to get something done we have to go with an experienced guy who probably has his own agenda. If we go with a freshman who has no agenda yet, we won't get things done. Sounds like Damned if you do and Damned if you don't.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I watched that too, it was very eye-opening. Of course the casinos were just part of it. The sweatshop deals were downright evil, the conditions that those people lived and worked in. And then there was the campaign money that went from Texas to Washington and back again, the fake 'Christian' organizations that only existed to collect and funnel money, etc. etc. I'm ordering a copy of the show.

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TXBill



Former owner of a few diesel MB cars
1998 Lexus ES 300 In Chicago We Trust

I watched that too, and the breadth of the corruption was really astonishing. I've always figured most of the people featured (Ralph Reed, Abramhoff, DeLay, Grover Norquist) were scumballs, but it went beyond my expectations. Well maybe I didn't necessarily think Norquist was a scumball. He doesn't look so good now, however.

To get back to the thread title, are the Dems as bad as these guys? I really doubt it. I have to say my already low opinion of the Republican party was lowered even further when I saw all this and thought about the fact that DeLay was one of their leaders for so long. Why wasn't he given the boot? The other leaders must be corrupt and/or stupid if they didn't realize what was going on. Either that or everyone in Washington has a spouse making half a mil for doing nothing for some special interest group.

Very disheartening.

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Ralph

1985 300D Turbo, CA model
248,650 miles and counting...

Its not an agenda, it is simple seniority. The system is never going to be perfect, but to suggest it should be abrubtly changed after maturing (ha) for over 200 years isn't going to work. Most guys with seniority (deLay and others excepted, of course) have more to lose and listen more carefully to constituents they think would but out bad press on them. You may get a quick response from an eager-beaver freshman, but if he can't get it done, what's the point?

Jack Abramhoff was in my town alot and I saw him a few times. All his college buddies now say they knew he was a POS long ago, but I never heard anyone utter that until it all fell apart. On the other hand, I know one very prominent black Democrat lobbyist that astonishes me with his open and notorious unethical dealings. No one will go after him, and the person that he derived all his power from hasn't been in office in 3 years!! Abramhoff wasn't a Republican--he was a whore. There are as many Dem whores as there are Rep ones because it isn't party affililation, its who will pay. As far as DeLay goes? Let's wait and see what happens to Jefferson (Dem. La.) and keep score from there. What was Trafficant, ect......? I bet it is about even.

I can't deny it. But it seems like things are more systemic now than they used to be. But it also seems like you're in more of a position to know.

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Ralph

1985 300D Turbo, CA model
248,650 miles and counting...

I have no doubt that no matter what laws are passed to remove corruption from politics that smart corrupt people while find a way around the laws. This disadvantages the people who play by the rules. It is a consequence and cause of Botnst's Three Laws of Bureaucracy.

Botnst's First Rule of Bureaucracy is that every solution offered, no matter the problem, will increase bureaucracy.

Botnst's Second Law of Bureaucracy is that the First Law will create unintended consequences in proportion to the 4th power of the pages it takes to write the law. Why 4th Power? I thought you'd never ask. One degree for the first problem, one degree each for the compromises for the two parties' wish lists, and one degree for stochasticity.

Botnsts Third Law of Bureaucracy is that no bureaucrat will ever acknowledge rules 1 and 2.

B

I certainly can't argue with your "stop electing clowns" statement.

But at this point, I am rapidly losing faith in the ability of people to elect competent candidates... Especially in certain parts of the country.

Hell, even in my own district, that raving lunatic Cynthia McKinney was re-elected NUMEROUS times! At least enough of the Democrats around here FINALLY got their heads screwed on straight enough to get rid of her.

At least term limits would somewhat contain the damage that these self-serving idiots do.

We have term limits for the President and for other government offices... Why not for Congress?

It seems to me that term limits are an inherently essential and common-sense part of a representative form of government, a safeguard against stagnation and tyranny, and it has always amazed and confounded me that there aren't term limits for Congressmen.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
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1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
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1985 300TD
270,000 miles
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1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
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He's shown some real backbone on more than one occasion. He voted against Bork and thank God for that. The Borking process was ugly, but Bork's comments in the years since have made one thing abundantly clear - that guy is a first class nutjob. The country really dodged a bullet on that one. A few years later, Warner opposed his party's candidate for the other Senate seat from Virginia. That candidate was Ollie North. Warner said that North was of poor moral character and did not belong in the Senate (or words to that effect). Once again, Warner hit the bulls eye. There are other examples of Warner doing his best to fulfill his duty to his constituents, but the Bork and North examples stand out. I disagree with Warner on many issues, but I consider him a true Republican, unlike so many of the zealots who are giving the GOP a bad name. As far as I'm concerned he can keep that job as long as he wants it.