Our two vans (Caravan and full size Dodge Ram, the kind with all the roll-over warnings) don't have rear sway bars. We've learned how to drive the Caravan, driving the Ram through a curve is always scary. Will a rear sway bar help or only provide false confidence? I mean less body roll would be nice but not if it means the driver might try to enter a curve with more speed. Take speed in context = with the Ram my confidence limit is about 20% slower than the curve warning sign.

Next problem is brakes. The Caravan brakes are ineffective. I looked into bigger brakes but the caliper frame is cast into the knuckle. Performance friction materials provide only marginal improvement. The Ram brakes are powerful but only has front ABS. It has an open diff so a rear wheel will lock if it rolls over a paint stripe while coming to a stop. Particularly freaky when slowing down over turn arrows painted into the lane.

Thanks,
Sixto
93 300SD

I've got the full size Dodge myself. Due to the nature of the beast and it's very high CG, I really don't think you'll gain much by tweaking the suspension. It's going to give you the "roll now" feeling if you enter any curve above the posted limit.

I can generally feel comfortable at the posted curve limit with the van, but, you don't want to be doing any sudden moves with the wheel at that speed. Smooooth is the word of the day with the van. Additionally, it's braking power is limited for such a heavy vehicle. I always maintain about 10 lengths (easy when you go slower than everybody else) and I don't drive it over 55 mph on the highway. It usually gets 15-16 mpg with these driving habits, so, I'm not all that put out about it's woefully inadequate handling.

A ****box is a ****box. They can't be tweaked to be hospitable on the road, no matter what you do because they are fundamentally doomed to be owned by people who are self centered, ignorant, have too much money and time on their hands and are waaaay too happy with the status quo. ****boxes don't belong on the road and a Dodge Ram is an unnecessary ****box, and should be condemned to the depths of hell along with all attractive women and social functions, because like ****boxes, they are unnecessary and wasteful of time that could be budgeted elsewhere, like shaving cams or whatnot.

Die ****boxes, die.

........couldn't have said it better myself. I hate the damn thing..........

........btw, the proper term is $hitbox........not ****box.

I don't love them myself--or any car for that matter--but they are a necessary evil!

Have I only to get about town, my preferred mode of transportation is a rickshaw, but in certain situations, I have to be able to tow 12.5K# to be able to put food on the table I hate it too, but those fish don't just drive themselves to the kitchen.

.......funny, I didn't think you would ever have to haul 70 accused felons around at any one moment.........

the hawk ceramic pads i bought from tire rack seemed to have more friction than standard pads.

the handling though, of any mini van or full sized is pretty hopeless, imho. if you need to tow a suburban is more stable than a van in my experience. my 3/4 ton dodge pickup also seems to handle fairly well. i dont try any really vigorous cornering but i suspect it would slide sideways on bare pavement as i suspect a suburban would. not a minivan or full sized van though.

now the benz r class may be a minivan that will handle....but who can afford that kindof money for a minivan?

tom w

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

My previous minivan was a Honda Odyssey and honestly its handling was on par with my 300E. It's not the minivan, it's the TYPE of minivan.

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08 W251 R350
97 W210 E320
91 W124 300E
86 W126 560SEL
85 W126 380SE Silver
85 W126 380SE Cranberry
79 W123 250
78 W123 280E
75 W114 280

some of those newer ones might actually slide sideways on bare pavement. those oddessys are getting very very wide!

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Stiffening the rear end will generally reduce understeer or even induce oversteer. As I understand it, cars designed for the United States have suspensions that are designed to understeer because the designers figure that American drivers don't know what do to when the car gets ass-end-first. That's why one of the first things people do with their pocket rockets (Hondas, Subarus, etc.) is add a stiffer rear bar. It brings the handling back closer to neutral.

not just american cars.

most responsible car designers make sure the cars push at least a little.

the notalbe exceptins include such cars as the corvair, vw beetle, and early 911 porsches.

of course absolutely neutral handling is the best and the best sports cars have that. mercedes are pretty neutral but most have a bit of push at the limit. more if you are braking heavily and trying to turn at the same time. just cornering hard will result in pretty neutral handling expecially if you are pushing the throttle down at the same time.

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Don't hold back!!! Tell us what you really think!!

In New York City, there are two preferred modes of transportation - By bus, and by ambulance

Fran Leibowitz said that. (in "Social Studies")

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

The question was not how to improve handling as much as wheather a rear sway bar will make the vehicle safer with an average driver at the wheel. Oversteer scares me. If body roll is there as a warning then I'm better off with it than with the false confidence that less leaning means the tires have grip.

The Ram isn't my favorite ride but this is the first time it's been suggested that I'm among the people who are self centered, ignorant, have too much money and time on their hands and are waaaay too happy with the status quo because of a vehicle that seats 14. I have to challenge you on this one, John Doe, what the heck is so despicable about 14 people in one vehicle, or 10 people and a pile of camping gear? Skip the first two. You're probably right on those :/ The rest... please elaborate.

Sixto
93 300SD

considering his following post i think maybe he was kidding.

a rear sway bar couldnt hurt imho. all talk of oversteer seems a little overblown to me in this case. but i think i have read that the ram 14 passenger was singled out as the most unsafe handling car/ truck available, so just watch out in high speed maneuvers!

tom w

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Sixto, just ignore him. He's having a blast attempting to irritate me because of my dislike for SUV's.........but........he failed.

He doesn't know the difference between a van and an SUV anyway..........