if thier quality has gone up, how come thier not pushing out more cars? last i checked they closed a couple plants.... or maybe that was ford?

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1983 Euro 240D 277K
2016 Mazda 6
Coming Soon, 2013 Mercedes E350 Bluetec
Formers:
2012- Mazda 3
2007 Outlander- complete pile
1995 E300 Diesel 208K
2007 VW Passat 2.0T 63K SOLD
2003 Jaguar X-type 3.0 Sport Sold 04/11 w/88K
2009 Lexus RX350 9061 miles. Sold 04/09
2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS:Totaled Sept.,09 @ 24,000
2003 Infiniti I35 58K Sold
1984 300 turbo diesel 222K

In my area they sell them as fast as they can build them. There is no such thing as a left over Toyota or Honda, they sell right after they hit the lot for just about sticker. Its kind of a pita when you want to buy one, even the 2-3 year old pre owned ones are only a couple grand off new sticker!

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

No that was GM closing plants because they built new plants to place them.

So check again

Oh snap!

Pop quiz a**hole Detroit Auto Show- which company took top spot for best car and best truck? (and I hate that company)

So no one gets offended, I'm not really calling anyone an a**hole.

I've had 3 Toyota trucks and have not had 1 single problem..........but lately I have noticed my Tundra wonders a bit and sometimes I hear a bad ball joint type noise.......so I'll bring it in and get that done.

I will buy Toyota trucks until I die........I love them.

My wife's Sienna has 163,000 miles on it and it has been super. Replaced one ignition coil at about 155,000 and the rear latch handle broke at about the same time. Both were replaced for a total of $150 and a half hour's work on my part.

I can't pry my wife out of this vehicle. She loves it. Runs smooth as silk and still gets 26mpg on the highway too!

I sold my LX-450 to a buddy at 166,000 and it truly felt like it had 30,000 miles. Tight, quiet, like butter. Never any breakdowns.

Those are the only two personal data points I have with Toyota, but they are both really good. They are also both from vehicles built 8-10 years ago. I guess we may have to watch and see what the '06 Toyotas are doing in 2016.

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2009 VW TDI Jetta Sportwagon 172k miles (rear-ended harder than Elton John on 8/4/13. Total loss)

1991 Volvo 240 142k miles (T-boned by a stop sign runner. Total loss)

if thier quality has gone up, how come thier not pushing out more cars? last i checked they closed a couple plants.... or maybe that was ford?

You obviously don't keep up with the news. If you did, you would know that Toyota is expanding rapidly and will soon, if trends continue, become the largest vehicle manufacturer in the U.S. of A.

GM and Ford are losing billions of dollars per year!

Steve

It still boils down to what an individual buyer likes. I strongly suspect that MB drivers simply prefer the look, feel, and driving enjoyment that MB delivers.

It's the little subconscious things like whether the body lines and paint scheme appeal to me. For instance, my '92 Sportline simply looks better to my eye than a standard 300E. The lower stance changes the appearance.
I had a customer that had a white '94 S500. I thought it looked ugly. I now have a Black Opal '97 S320, which looks very much more appealing to my eye.

I test drove a Toyota Forerunner a few years ago. Closing the driver's door echoed the flimsy nature of the door construction. I have a Toyota Tacoma 2 WD truck. Totally bulletproof. It does it's job, but you wouldn't want to take it on a long trip. Test drove a Honda Pilot last year. It wandered slightly on the highway. Cross it off. Salesman didn't know what to say.

However, the vast majority of the car buying public has no concept of little nuisances in handling or other issues. Most of them have never experienced what a really well designed car delivers. So they have no basis for comparison and they don't care anyway.

Steve

Really? Where do you get your information? Billions? You maybe keeping up with the news but you need some help with comprehension.

It's been widely reported, and is public information. It's pretty hard to miss the fact that Ford is in deep, deep trouble, and GM is not far behind. Bond ratings for both comanies are junk status. Ford using assets as collateral for credit lines to provide cash just to keep running long enough to accomplish a turnaround. The losses at GM are narrowing, but I suspect the financials have been tweaked to provide the most rosy picture possible.

Here's some clips from just one of many Wall Street Journal articles 10-25-2006

"Mr. Wagoner's future at the Detroit company had been in doubt after GM reported a loss of $10.6 billion for 2005. High labor costs, coupled with declining U.S. market share, have beset the company."

Earlier this week, Ford Motor Co. reported a $5.8 billion preliminary net loss for the third quarter and predicted bigger fourth-quarter operating losses. DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group posted a $1.5 billion loss in the quarter, ending its string of a dozen straight profitable quarters.

GM finished the third quarter with $20.4 billion in total cash, down from $22.9 billion at the end of the second quarter

Regards,

Steve

Check some clips from January.

Ford is deep in the red and there is no doubt there but GM is a totally different story because GM has so many income producing branches and creative accounting that you cannot look at GM North America on it own. The unions beef with GM is they send money to overseas operations to avoid paying big profit sharing bonus's.

GM if fine for now. Remember they sold of GMAC last year and have $5B coming in to offset the loses for a bit. Knowing accounting you can hide a lot, also there are always two sets of reports. Internal and external I suspect the reports we see are cleaned up a bit, but thats true of any company.

GM is selling off there assets as well, and are working on a turn around. Unlike Ford, GM actualy has cars people want to buy and does not relay on fleet sales. GM is also working very hard and some of the new stuff from Caddy and Saturn is extremly competitive. Ford on the other hand is probably being kept afloat by fleet sales and SUV/trucks. If sales of the Crown Vic or F150 tank I bet Ford is DOA.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Good news on GM. I very much hope that GM gets back to profitablility. I wish, hope that Ford, GM, and DC would return to profitability in North America. The global profitability is wonderful, but I can tell you from experience that money losing operations will not be tolerated for long in today's world. I'm reminded of the yearly meetings where all of us plant General Managers were assured that even though our division was losing money, 30 plants, the overall picture was nicely profitable. Eventually, the entire division was sold off.

Actually, I should follow it more closely. I have several industrial customers that to varying degrees depend on the domestic auto industry. The multiplier effect of a business GM staggers the mind. I have one customer that would be out of business in fairly short order if it's two main customers were to tank from losing GM business. It ain't pretty out there.

Hatterasguy is correct relative to the numbers. Until you have actually participated in that excercise, as I have albeit years ago, you can't appreciate the level of distortion that can be achieved.

Steve

Oh yeah accounting is my favorite subject and just about the only usefull one I have taken in school so far. The old joke is that in accounting 2+2 can equal anything is true! I only know some pretty basic stuff, I'm sure the advanced guys can make a turd look like gold on paper. Look at what Enron did with there loses. Set up companys in other countries and have them take the hit, so Enron's books looked good.

DC has a lot going for it, they are probably in better shape them GM actualy. Worst case Chrysler would be sold off, Mercedes car division is the crown jewl of that company and would be fine. Besides Mercedes AFAIK never made any money.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

People's memories of problem cars live on and make them wary of that brand in the future even if that brand of car has corrected the problems.

I once bought a nearly new Ford 1995 Taurus which was less than a year old and had only 10,000 mile on it. Still had factory warranty, thank heavens, because it sure was needed. I naively thought that this car had been made for so many years that Ford would have worked out the bugs in it. Dumb old me!

Ford knew the problems but figured they would make more profit by not fixing them and just stiffing owners with claims. I found out they had been doing this for many years. Just look into the history of the Pinto and the Escort.

My Taurus was on its third set of head gaskets by 90,000 miles, its transmission was notorious for failing, the parking brake system was a bad design which resulted in the rear brake pads not fully backing off and causing rapid pad wear, warped discs, and reduced mileage. The speedometer head was defective and the ignition switch was also. The intake manifold also warped and leaked coolant.

This was a nice handling car, very reliable, used no oil, had great fuel economy, and good power. If Ford had bothered to correct the known problems, I'd still be driving Fords. As it is, I'll never buy another. no matter how good they say they are.

A couple of years ago I rented a new Chevvy Classic ( same as the Impala, I believe). It was a mixed bag. Great gas mileage from the 4 cylinder engine with so-so power. The seats killed your butt. The car steering was not stable and the car wandered badly. From that one experience, I am not likely to buy a GM car. Cars cost just too much to buy from car makers who have made some cars you don't trust. This is probably the reason US car makers have such a high 'trust' hurdle to overcome. Too bad too because my family has always had US cars until we figured out that others were more reliable. We've had Volvo and now Mercedes with no complaints. No Japanese cars yet but maybe in the future.

I once heard a business consultant tell a group that it took something like 10 good reports to counteract one bad report. In the case of cars, I think he was optimistic!

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1986 300E
1993 Volvo 940 Wagon
1984 Volvo 240 (daughter's)
1976 Dodge 1/2T pickup, gas hog