Torture - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tankdriver · #1 10-18-2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

The real test is what is "torture" some people think that the act of holding a person against their will is torture and it goes up from there.

It's only the real test if we know exactly what the government is doing, and no one wants to say.

cmac2012 · #2 10-21-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

Most of the captives are not due to surrender people I know in the "talkin to" game tell me that torture is largely ineffective for good information.

NPR's Fresh Air had a show the other day about torture, there's human rights group giving an award for best, most honest, media depictions of torture, the show was partly about that. They also had a guest who had done interrogations in Vietnam, Panama, and elsewhere.

The guy had the best info I'd heard on what works and what doesn't and he gives the best, dryest, and most cooly professional ***** slap to Rumsfeld on the topic that I've heard.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15148243

He mentions what you speak of, that torture usually yields what the torturee thinks you want to hear.

aklim · #3 10-21-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

He mentions what you speak of, that torture usually yields what the torturee thinks you want to hear.

So what? Lets say they usually tell us what we want to hear but there is a chance that they will also blurt out some info that we DO want to hear and happens to be true, what did it cost us? Why should we take that chance?

cmac2012 · #4 10-22-2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So what? Lets say they usually tell us what we want to hear but there is a chance that they will also blurt out some info that we DO want to hear and happens to be true, what did it cost us? Why should we take that chance?

Because we will be running around like fools, chasing down and acting on faulty leads. Listen to the Fresh Air episode I linked to. The gentleman there knows far more about than you ever will.

And as for what it cost us, the blowback from torture is likely to be enormous. Unless we kill everyone we torture, and that has its own set of problems, the PR loss is definite whereas the intelligence gain is suspect.

aklim · #5 10-22-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Because we will be running around like fools, chasing down and acting on faulty leads.

And as for what it cost us, the blowback from torture is likely to be enormous. Unless we kill everyone we torture, and that has its own set of problems, the PR loss is definite whereas the intelligence gain is suspect.

I see. Instead of no leads? Even if you get intel thru other means, you still have to chase it down.

Screw the PR loss. Why should we care about it? The other side certainly doesn't and are still going strong.

John Doe · #6 10-22-2007, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

NPR's Fresh Air had a show the other day about torture, there's human rights group giving an award for best, most honest, media depictions of torture, the show was partly about that. They also had a guest who had done interrogations in Vietnam, Panama, and elsewhere.

The guy had the best info I'd heard on what works and what doesn't and he gives the best, dryest, and most cooly professional ***** slap to Rumsfeld on the topic that I've heard.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15148243

He mentions what you speak of, that torture usually yields what the torturee thinks you want to hear.

I caught that show--good show. Guy wouldn't say whether waterboarding was considered torture though, remember?

cmac2012 · #7 10-23-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Doe

I caught that show--good show. Guy wouldn't say whether waterboarding was considered torture though, remember?

Just in time John.

I'll have to listen to it again. I don't recall that part about not saying regarding water boarding. Sure you're not thinking of the new AG?

Gurkha · #8 10-18-2007, 07:37 AM

Torture was not just the realm of the Germans, everyone has done it throughout history and continue doing so with impunity and justificiation and of course, denial of the very act as well.

aklim · #9 10-18-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I know this has been discussed before, but the president and his staff is on the airways again saying that we don't torture but not defining what torture is.

I discussed this with some of the fellows that I eat lunch with the other day and one of them, who is a VietNam vet, told of the practice of taking two prisoners up in a Chopper and throwing one out so the other would talk.

I come down on the side of following the Geneva convention myself. I want us to be admirable in our actions and I want them to know they will be treated humanely so that they won't fear being taken prisoner.

Plus the information gotten from torture is not reliable. They will say whatever they think you want to hear if you are pulling their fingernails off just to get you to stop.

It is our enemies we are talking about. So what? Grind them and feed them to the pigs for all I care.

No problem with that. Makes me think of the movie "Scarface" except that guy was hung from a chopper.

They are not even afraid of dying for their cause. I doubt torture will change that.

It's not ALWAYS reliable. Some of it might be, some might not be. You need to check out the info you get always. However, it is more reliable than no information.