Wake up call for US Navy. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Gurkha · #1 11-12-2007, 12:34 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

LaRondo · #2 11-12-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

Sounds funny! Red-Faced!

Dee8go · #3 11-12-2007, 08:32 AM

Doh!

Botnst · #4 11-12-2007, 08:35 AM

Golly, when did that happen?

Gurkha · #5 11-12-2007, 08:38 AM

Indeed..........

The Swede · #6 11-12-2007, 08:48 AM

Don't lick the commie sub.

Pete Geither · #7 11-12-2007, 09:28 AM

This is not good,,,, it seems that China is WAY ahead technology wise that we ever imagined.

Gurkha · #8 11-12-2007, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

This is not good,,,, it seems that China is WAY ahead technology wise that we ever imagined.

They may not be way ahead but they seem to be taking steps in the right direction. Not good news for India as well, India and China fought one real bad war in 1962 with India being in the receiving end. Now Chinese are making claims across the border to areas under Indian control and this kind of news is wake up call for India as well.

R Leo · #9 11-12-2007, 09:56 AM

This is nothing new. Navies everywhere fear low signature diesel electrics operating in the littoral environment. It's ironic that those boats are considered trailing edge by the uninformed yet are, by their nature, some of the most stealthy submarines built.

Quote:

Originally Posted by from FAS.org

3.6.1 Warfighter Needs

With the shift in focus from global confrontation to regional conflicts in shallow water and littoral zones, a deficiency became obvious regarding the capability of undersea weapons to successfully attack threat submarines under such harsh environmental conditions. Moreover, the problem is compounded by low-signature diesel/electric submarines operating in the shallow waters armed with modern, lethal weapons. Technological superiority and affordability of next-generation undersea weapons is needed to ensure the ability to cope with an evolving threat in harsh environments. The return on investment includes the capability to provide deep-water-equivalent performance against the quiet, small diesel/electric targets in shallow water, which will be available in the mid term (i.e., 3 to 5 years). By employing broadband sensors and signal processing, the capability to defeat sophisticated countermeasures will be available in the far term. A new capability to disable incoming torpedoes will be available to the fleet in about 5 years. In addition, significant efforts are directed toward reducing cost of ownership through commonality of subsystem hardware and software and, where possible, entire systems over the next 3-10 years.

the character of noise created by submarines

PRC Kilo Class

"The worldwide proliferation of modern quiet diesel-electric submarines requires increased emphasis on the use of active sonar and full spectrum passive processing. Improved classification for existing active sonar systems is the short-term (<5 years) goal."

Mistress · #10 11-12-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

This is not good,,,, it seems that China is WAY ahead technology wise that we ever imagined.

They still can't make decent toys....well ones you can safely play with anyway. brings new meaning to "flying under the radar."

cmac2012 · #11 11-13-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Geither

This is not good,,,, it seems that China is WAY ahead technology wise that we ever imagined.

I'm amazed at how much the steel in their consumer goods has improved in 10 years. I heard on guy on NPR claim that virtually all computers, laptops anyway, are made in China now. Is it wise to cede production capability to them in this way?

It's worth noting that the area in question is much closer to their homeland than ours.

Gurkha · #12 11-12-2007, 11:26 AM

China isn't same entity as Libya. This could have turned nasty or it was just China testing US systems, either way, its a wake up call for sure.

guage · #13 11-12-2007, 11:38 AM

It certainly is a wake up-call

I'm surprised the sub would show it hand, why not keep it a secret that they are able to get with target range undetected.

KylePavao · #14 11-14-2007, 09:12 AM

This submarine is nothing spectacular. The Song class is based on the Russian(Soviet) Romeo class of diesel electric submarines, produced in the 1950's. It's antiship missiles have a range of 18KM, nothing compared to the Harpoon used by the United States, and it's speed using the electric motors is not nearly fast enough to outrun nuclear powered vessels. This is of key importance to a diesel submarine; if it does get off it's first shot and is detected, it must get away. It can only be engaged in combat until it is forced to surface to replenish it's oxygen supply. This is a distinct tactical disadvantage when compared to nuclear powered boats, and the advantage of it's "stealthiness" is in fact a double edge sword when combined with the fact that it must surface.

Modern Seawolf and the upcoming Virginia class submarines are extremely quiet and fast. Any great blue water fleet must rely on nuclear submarines for it's arsenal; surfacing is not an option.

When we had diesel subs back in the 50's and 60's, the Russians would play games with us. When I was reading "Blind Man's Bluff", one account told of Russian surface ships preventing a US diesel sub to surface until it was almost out of oxygen. A complete embarassment for the US Navy, and a key reason why all our subs our nuclear powered. Diesel electric subs really only possess and advantage in small tributaries or on the coast. This Chinese boat was 160ft. long....the smallest American submarine, the LA class, is 360ft. When they can make a large submarine quiet I'll be scared.

aklim · #15 11-14-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KylePavao

if it does get off it's first shot and is detected, it must get away.

This Chinese boat was 160ft. long....the smallest American submarine, the LA class, is 360ft. When they can make a large submarine quiet I'll be scared.

Assuming that it doesn't sink the carrier, you are right. However, this is considering that they can launch a few torpedoes before you find them. IOW, the best you can hope for is a total miss by the sub. Best case scenario, you get him after he sinks your carrier. Big loss for small loss. In the case mentioned, he was not found, could get off a first shot and run like hell in the confusion.

How large a sub do they need to sink the carrier?