Do Atheists murder? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 12-13-2007, 08:03 PM

If a theologian doesn't have a reasonable way of dealing with the problem of evil, then he or she isn't worth his or her salt.
I'm of the opinion that dealing with God as an apriori idea is a creative and fruitful way of approaching the topic (but not as an assumption). God is certainly not an empirical object of the everyday kind and definitely not observable except insofar as the universe is a part of god.
As I mentioned earlier, I am in favor of science but I see absolutely no reason to think that it is an inherently rational practice as opposed to a successful and useful practice. I also do not think that theology could ever be a substitute for science.
Epicurus was no atheist. He just thought the gods were smart and consequently had absolutely no interest in us.

I don't remember that book by Guinness but it sounds like something he would have written.

hill · #2 12-13-2007, 08:13 PM

Heres another atheist killer.

'For some reason, Catholics are not eager to claim Hitler.'

"in Mein Kampf: 'Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's Work.'"

Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews ... The work that Christ started but could not finish, I -- Adolf Hitler -- will conclude."

aklim · #3 12-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

All that might make some sense if it is assumed that God's purpose is to serve mankind.

Maybe its NOT about me?

So, if God/Gods don't serve or do things for mankind, what do we owe them? IOW, why should I worship you, obey you, etc, etc if you aren't doing anything for me?

Why not? If you want something from me, I am involved. If I am giving something, I am involved.

MS Fowler · #4 12-14-2007, 06:24 AM

hill,
I hope your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.
You must realize that politicians may tend to say things that are popular with the people they seek to rule. It is also possible that politicians do not always speak or write exactly ( or ever) what they truly believe.
I cannot imagine anyone seriously calling Hilter a Christian.

MS Fowler · #5 12-14-2007, 09:58 AM

Kerry,
The synapses are not making good connections--the book to which I had tried to make reference was "Naming the Whirlwind..." by Langdon Gilkey

Sometimes it just takes longer for the information to filter thru.

kerry · #6 12-14-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Kerry,
The synapses are not making good connections--the book to which I had tried to make reference was "Naming the Whirlwind..." by Langdon Gilkey

Sometimes it just takes longer for the information to filter thru.

That book I have read. Although, the synapses that were in use when I did so have since retired.

MS Fowler · #7 12-14-2007, 01:13 PM

I remember more my reaction to it, than the book, itself.
I felt like the author bored DEEP holes into the topic. So deep in fact, that ( at least in my case) we lost all light before we got to the bottom.

MS Fowler · #8 12-14-2007, 09:39 PM

Aklim,
You miss the point about Abraham's almost sacrifice of his son, Issac.
Issac was the son God had pronised to Ab--that thru his descendents the world would be blessed.
Ab considered that God was a promise-keeper. God had promised him a son, and had delivered on that promise. The scriptures are clear that Abraham believed that God was able to bring his son back to life ( if he were to be sacrificed), to fulfill the promise.
Abraham was never required to perform the sacrifice, nor is there any other instance of child sacrifice.

As for your recommendation to use the KJV, I can't help but wonder, "why?"
In its day, the KJV was a good English translation, ( and still the prettiest English rendering of the Psalms), but English has changed over the last 500 years. The only reason to Greek texts, and more correct translations available, why not use them?
I am partial to the New International, but there are several other good English translations.

kerry · #9 12-14-2007, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Abraham was never required to perform the sacrifice, nor is there any other instance of child sacrifice.
.

But Abraham did agree to do it. There's a huge problem there. Is it right to agree to homicide if God asks you to do it??

I think you're forgetting one other pretty significant instance of child sacrifice in the New Testament.

aklim · #10 12-14-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

But Abraham did agree to do it. There's a huge problem there.

Is it right to agree to homicide if God asks you to do it??

My only question is what sort of shepard (insert deity here)are we talking about guarding the flock (human beings). Are we talking about the sort of shepard that cares for his flock? I'm not omnipotent but I do care about my dogs and do everything I can for them. Perhaps we are talking about a shepard that screws around with his flock to test them. Kinda like the shepard that screws his sheep when he gets bored just for grins.

The whacko wards are full of people that do things that God asked them to do.

aklim · #11 12-14-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

The scriptures are clear that Abraham believed that God was able to bring his son back to life ( if he were to be sacrificed), to fulfill the promise.

Abraham was never required to perform the sacrifice, nor is there any other instance of child sacrifice.

As for your recommendation to use the KJV, I can't help but wonder, "why?"

But why ask him to do it and hold his hand at the last minute? Isn't that a test?

It is not the child sacrifice that I am talking about. It is that there are instances where people are tested. Like we would a laboratory rat.

Not to be flippant but to answer your question, because it is found in hotel rooms.

A264172 · #12 12-14-2007, 11:07 PM

When the voice in my head talks to me I just nod and ignore it.

kerry · #13 12-14-2007, 11:28 PM

Watching 'Breaking the Waves" right now. Lots of divine promises and divine voices involved. A modern day Abraham/Isaac tale.

A264172 · #14 12-14-2007, 11:35 PM

Never heard of it ... till now. IMBD synopsis seems to rate it a great film.

MS Fowler · #15 12-15-2007, 08:04 AM

The Bible is a progessive revelation. Abraham was very early, before there was even a Jewish nation, well before Moses and the Law.
I cannot answer "why" God seems to have been testing Abraham. It certainly was not because God needed to know something about Abraham.
Mankind has been fighting against God sice the very beginning. Why would anyone think that God is under some sort of obligation to serve mankind. He is the Creator; we are the creation--VAST difference. Paul discusses this in his letter to the Romans--Does the clay ask of the Potter, " Why have you made me like this?". The original Greek is very strong--that the question is completely out of order==Clay does not make demands on the Potter.