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  #1  
Old 12-11-2007, 03:21 PM
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Religious wars are no more or less moral than other types of cleansing actions. There is essentially no difference between an inquisition and Stalin's actions.

I also take exception to the statement that atheism is a religion. It doesn't involve living my life according to a set of beliefs. A set of morals, sure, but that's an orthogonal concept.
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Old 12-11-2007, 03:24 PM
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Well, fart in the direction of whoever said it or throw down a gauntlet or something
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post
Religious wars are no more or less moral than other types of cleansing actions. There is essentially no difference between an inquisition and Stalin's actions.

I also take exception to the statement that atheism is a religion. It doesn't involve living my life according to a set of beliefs. A set of morals, sure, but that's an orthogonal concept.

Au contrare'

But you absolutely do live your liufe according to a system of beliefs, some of which are:

There is no God/ Creator.
The physical world exists.
I can obtain complete information about all that is thru my sense of taste, touch, smell, sight, and hearing. Nothing else exists.
There is no future punishment or reward for my actions in life.
There is nothing intrinsically different between human, animal and plant life. All life evolved from the same promordial goo.
The universe is based on simple random chance.--It is only thru chance that what exists came into being.

I could go on.
The point is not to insult your beliefs, and I hope I have not done so, but only to show that atheists do live by a set of beliefs--even if you have never codified them. Your actions are goverened by that belief set.

Therefore atheism is a religion, albeit a godless one.
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Au contrare'

But you absolutely do live your liufe according to a system of beliefs, some of which are:

There is no God/ Creator.
The physical world exists.
I can obtain complete information about all that is thru my sense of taste, touch, smell, sight, and hearing. Nothing else exists.
There is no future punishment or reward for my actions in life.
There is nothing intrinsically different between human, animal and plant life. All life evolved from the same promordial goo.
The universe is based on simple random chance.--It is only thru chance that what exists came into being.

I could go on.
The point is not to insult your beliefs, and I hope I have not done so, but only to show that atheists do live by a set of beliefs--even if you have never codified them. Your actions are goverened by that belief set.

Therefore atheism is a religion, albeit a godless one.
These are all beliefs but I don't think they constitute religion. Religions have rituals and if they survive for any length of time, institutions that embody those rituals, typically with a hierarchy and distinct lines of authority. Also, almost all literate religions have holy texts of some kind. They also tend to have special or unusual experiences that are the focus of the practitioners, such as being born again, or experiencing nirvana or entering a trance or speaking in tongues. It's also hard to find religions that don't involve supernatural personal beings.
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Old 12-12-2007, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Au contrare'

But you absolutely do live your liufe according to a system of beliefs, some of which are:

There is no God/ Creator.
The physical world exists.
I can obtain complete information about all that is thru my sense of taste, touch, smell, sight, and hearing. Nothing else exists.
There is no future punishment or reward for my actions in life.
There is nothing intrinsically different between human, animal and plant life. All life evolved from the same promordial goo.
The universe is based on simple random chance.--It is only thru chance that what exists came into being.

I could go on.
The point is not to insult your beliefs, and I hope I have not done so, but only to show that atheists do live by a set of beliefs--even if you have never codified them. Your actions are goverened by that belief set.

Therefore atheism is a religion, albeit a godless one.
No offense or insult taken, so don't worry. However, I do worry because your view is as prevalent as it is incorrect.

My "belief" doesn't make me not regularly go to church. Doesn't make me pray. That's about it.

It isn't because you are a Christian that you don't pray to Mecca. It's because you are not a Muslim. That you are not a Muslim because you are a Christian is a different issue.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:21 PM
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I think you are both confusing the "trappings" of some religions as somehow intrinsic to the definition.

Very simply, as posted above there are "beliefs" associated with atheism that are very similar to belioefs of any religion. Don't get so absorbed in looking for tress that you can't see the forest.

And, as I described those beliefs have some impact one your behavior.

You are acting as if being an atheist is somehow a morally superior postion to those who have religious beliefs, and so you do not want to be part of that crowd. And yet you are.
There are beliefs you have that you take on faith quite as much as the most zealous fundamentalist . Scary, isn't it.
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