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-   -   Another campus shooting (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=213781)

Botnst 02-26-2008 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1775737)
Well again, that was a strategic withdrawal, not a military defeat. I'm talking about an insurgency like us the people against our own oppressive government that's fighting for its survival which is a very different scenario. Judging by other countries that have this problem, the insurgencies seem to drag on forever and they never win. All I'm saying is that the 2nd amendment is far from a guarantee of freedom.

It isn't necessarily guns and bombs that decide the fate of a revolution, else there would still be an East Germany and a USSR and a Warsaw Pact.

DieselAddict 02-26-2008 09:21 PM

Exactly, they did it without guns. Oftentimes that works better.

tankdriver 02-26-2008 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1775741)
Exactly, they did it without guns. Oftentimes that works better.

Indeed. India is a prime example.



I agree in principle that the only thing that protects us from the government is the military. If the government sent troops into American neighborhoods, no small arms are going to help us. Only the troops disobeying unlawful orders would. But, I could be an insurgent with a weapon. Whether I and others like me could win is irrelevant. For us insurgents, we are free, and trying to win back our country.

pt145ss 02-27-2008 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver (Post 1775574)
pt145ss, cars aren't weapons.

Great point! Cars are tools...a means of getting from point A to point B. Cars are also used for recreation and sport. Is it possible that in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon?...Absolutely! A case in point; A few years back in Houston, TX I believe, A married doctor was having an affair. The scorned wife followed the doctor and his mistress to the hotel. When the doctor and mistress were leaving, the wife ran doctor down (in a Mercedes ironically) and killed him. At that point, the car was no longer a tool…it was a weapon.

A baseball bat…it is a tool used in recreation to hit a baseball. That same baseball bat can easily be used against a human as a weapon. That same baseball bat can have lethal consequences. Do we band all baseball bats?

A kitchen steak knife…it is a tool used to cut your rib eye or t-bone steak. That same steak knife can easily be used too murder someone at which point it is no longer a tool…but now a weapon…and when used in this manner it can have deadly consequences. Do we band all steak knifes?

A pillow…a fairly benign object…used to comfort the body while sleeping. This same pillow can be used to suffocate a cheating spouse. At that point it becomes a weapon with fatal consequences. Do we band all pillows?

I can go on and on…but I think you get my point.

The bottom line is…a gun is a tool. A tool used for hunting, recreation, and self defense…which are all valid and legal reasons to own one. A gun is a firearm…not a weapon…it can not be considered a weapon until it is used against a human being. The anti-gunners are the way they are out of fear and ignorance. I say fear and ignorance because most anti-gunners have not been exposed to guns on a regular basis. Most have not been taught safe and proper use of a firearm.

cudaspaz 02-27-2008 12:59 PM

http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=201

Here's a little information on the biggest threat to our guns, and Canada's LARGE involvement.

Watch both videos.

DieselAddict 02-27-2008 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pt145ss (Post 1776123)
Great point! Cars are tools...a means of getting from point A to point B. Cars are also used for recreation and sport. Is it possible that in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon?...Absolutely! A case in point; A few years back in Houston, TX I believe, A married doctor was having an affair. The scorned wife followed the doctor and his mistress to the hotel. When the doctor and mistress were leaving, the wife ran doctor down (in a Mercedes ironically) and killed him. At that point, the car was no longer a tool…it was a weapon.

A baseball bat…it is a tool used in recreation to hit a baseball. That same baseball bat can easily be used against a human as a weapon. That same baseball bat can have lethal consequences. Do we band all baseball bats?

A kitchen steak knife…it is a tool used to cut your rib eye or t-bone steak. That same steak knife can easily be used too murder someone at which point it is no longer a tool…but now a weapon…and when used in this manner it can have deadly consequences. Do we band all steak knifes?

A pillow…a fairly benign object…used to comfort the body while sleeping. This same pillow can be used to suffocate a cheating spouse. At that point it becomes a weapon with fatal consequences. Do we band all pillows?

I can go on and on…but I think you get my point.

The bottom line is…a gun is a tool. A tool used for hunting, recreation, and self defense…which are all valid and legal reasons to own one. A gun is a firearm…not a weapon…it can not be considered a weapon until it is used against a human being. The anti-gunners are the way they are out of fear and ignorance. I say fear and ignorance because most anti-gunners have not been exposed to guns on a regular basis. Most have not been taught safe and proper use of a firearm.

Try killing 32 people on a campus within minutes with a car, baseball bat, pillow or a steak knife. Guns are much more dangerous "tools" and they are a weapon anytime they're used to threaten another human being or kill another living creature, not just human beings.

Matt L 02-27-2008 03:54 PM

Guns are not nearly as dangerous as some diesel fuel and fertilizer.

pt145ss 02-27-2008 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1776473)
Try killing 32 people on a campus within minutes with a car, baseball bat, pillow or a steak knife. Guns are much more dangerous "tools" and they are a weapon anytime they're used to threaten another human being or kill another living creature, not just human beings.

Given a gun-free zone campus…a lecture hall with 300 students…a truck, some barrels, fuel, fertilizer...and a few other legal components (I refuse to mention here)…heck we can even throw in the baseball bat, steak knifes, and pillows…there are your 32 + people.

The point is…anything (not just guns) in the hands of someone intent on doing harm can be potentially deadly. So is the answer to band all these items? I think not.

DieselAddict 02-27-2008 05:39 PM

Who's talking about banning anything? And how often does someone blow up a building in the US? The last incident I recall was the Oklahoma bombing in 1995. On the other hand major school and workplace shootings (especially of the suicide variety) occur several times a year in this country. It's much easier to just slip a gun or two in your pants than haul a bunch of barrels with fuel and fertilizer undetected.

tankdriver 02-27-2008 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pt145ss (Post 1776123)
Great point! Cars are tools...a means of getting from point A to point B. Cars are also used for recreation and sport. Is it possible that in the wrong hands it can be used as a weapon?...Absolutely! A case in point; A few years back in Houston, TX I believe, A married doctor was having an affair. The scorned wife followed the doctor and his mistress to the hotel. When the doctor and mistress were leaving, the wife ran doctor down (in a Mercedes ironically) and killed him. At that point, the car was no longer a tool…it was a weapon.

A baseball bat…it is a tool used in recreation to hit a baseball. That same baseball bat can easily be used against a human as a weapon. That same baseball bat can have lethal consequences. Do we band all baseball bats?

A kitchen steak knife…it is a tool used to cut your rib eye or t-bone steak. That same steak knife can easily be used too murder someone at which point it is no longer a tool…but now a weapon…and when used in this manner it can have deadly consequences. Do we band all steak knifes?

A pillow…a fairly benign object…used to comfort the body while sleeping. This same pillow can be used to suffocate a cheating spouse. At that point it becomes a weapon with fatal consequences. Do we band all pillows?

I can go on and on…but I think you get my point.

The bottom line is…a gun is a tool. A tool used for hunting, recreation, and self defense…which are all valid and legal reasons to own one. A gun is a firearm…not a weapon…it can not be considered a weapon until it is used against a human being. The anti-gunners are the way they are out of fear and ignorance. I say fear and ignorance because most anti-gunners have not been exposed to guns on a regular basis. Most have not been taught safe and proper use of a firearm.

A gun is a weapon whose purpose is to kill or wound. A gun has no benign function. Everything else you listed has a purpose other than killing or wounding.
It has nothing to do with cars, and can't be reasonably compared to a car in any fashion.

Botnst 02-27-2008 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver (Post 1776708)
A gun is a weapon whose purpose is to kill or wound. A gun has no benign function. Everything else you listed has a purpose other than killing or wounding. It has nothing to do with cars, and can't be reasonably compared to a car in any fashion.

A gun has neither benign nor malignant function and it has no purpose. A gun cannot threaten and a gun cannot set a people free and a gun cannot enslave anybody. A gun could sit loaded and cocked and ready to fire for years and years and harm nobody. It could be pointed at a bathtub full of orphaned babies and it would be no threat to them whatsoever.

B

cudaspaz 02-27-2008 07:53 PM

Depends on the size of the crowd, and the size and speed of the vehicle.


It's a useless argument.
Sissies are afraid of guns and the responsible people that use them, and responsible gun owners don't understand the sissies because the sissies make absolutely no sense.

Nuff said, case closed.

Brian Carlton 02-27-2008 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst (Post 1776786)
A gun..........has no purpose.

B


A gun absolutely has a purpose. Anything manufactured or produced by a human being has a purpose.

DieselAddict 02-27-2008 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cudaspaz
Sissies are afraid of guns and the responsible people that use them, and responsible gun owners don't understand the sissies because the sissies make absolutely no sense.

Wrong. The so-called "sissies" are afraid of guns in the hands of criminals and they have every right to feel that way, given our high crime rate.

aklim 02-27-2008 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 1776798)
Wrong. The so-called "sissies" are afraid of guns in the hands of criminals and they have every right to feel that way, given our high crime rate.

They are already there. Nothing you say or do can stop that. Might as well defend yourself. That or wait for 911 which is pretty much there to fill up the paperwork so you can claim insurance.


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