Utah students hide guns, head to class - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 02-21-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

But you do enjoy the gore and blood of course, even better if the students are all Muslims

True. However, know what I enjoy more than blood and gore? Not having to depend on someone to save my ass from being shot. As to getting shot at, been there, done that, didn't enjoy knowing that all I could do is run and hope he/she/it misses and all I had in my hand was my d1ck. Now, that is just me. Your opinion might differ

aklim · #17 02-21-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Take the military scenario. A shooter can get into a camp and take out quite a few soldiers before being put down. Same scenraio applies to this situation.

If those soldiers were not armed except for a few guards, would the death toll be more or less than what you are describing? He is going to kill a some people, no doubt about that. That is the nature of a surprise attack. However, if the soldiers are not armed with their guns locked up and the guards were the only ones with guns, would that shooter be able to kill more people than if the soldiers were armed? Both scenarios being a surprise attack.

Gurkha · #18 02-21-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

True. However, know what I enjoy more than blood and gore? Not having to depend on someone to save my ass from being shot. As to getting shot at, been there, done that, didn't enjoy knowing that all I could do is run and hope he/she/it misses and all I had in my hand was my d1ck. Now, that is just me. Your opinion might differ

So you are for everyone carrying a gun to school? How about the entire city like the good old wild west of past? Is that really the solution. I collect guns for recreation and support everyone's right to own weapons but only as a recreational sport and not to carry it around everywhere. Only in situations where I know there is grave danger will I pack. If we are to carry guns every day in our daily walk of life, things are not good. I wouldn't feel good if I have to pack a weapon to go to my work.

aklim · #19 02-21-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

So you are for everyone carrying a gun to school?

How about the entire city like the good old wild west of past? Is that really the solution. I collect guns for recreation and support everyone's right to own weapons but only as a recreational sport and not to carry it around everywhere.

Only in situations where I know there is grave danger will I pack.

If we are to carry guns every day in our daily walk of life, things are not good. I wouldn't feel good if I have to pack a weapon to go to my work.

If they can pass the CCW? Sure. Not if they have had violent crime in their past.

I can live that way.

Why? Can't you call 911? Why don't YOU want to depend on them?

I'd be fine with it. Crooks won't but such is life.

Gurkha · #20 02-21-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If those soldiers were not armed except for a few guards, would the death toll be more or less than what you are describing? He is going to kill a some people, no doubt about that. That is the nature of a surprise attack. However, if the soldiers are not armed with their guns locked up and the guards were the only ones with guns, would that shooter be able to kill more people than if the soldiers were armed? Both scenarios being a surprise attack.

I would agree to a point but every student carrying a gun is not the solution. Just imagine the situation during a typical school brawl that happens frequently all over the world over petty matters. Instead of fists, there will be lead flying around all over.

Hatterasguy · #21 02-21-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

I can't tell yet if you are being serious. Yes. Any student who wants to carry a weapon should be able to do so. Read the second amendment (no age or mental competency restrictions)

X2, I'd rather return fire then call 911 and pray that the cops get their and get inside before I die.

aklim · #22 02-21-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I would agree to a point but every student carrying a gun is not the solution. Just imagine the situation during a typical school brawl that happens frequently all over the world over petty matters. Instead of fists, there will be lead flying around all over.

If by "every" you mean anyone who has the few bucks to own one, I agree. however, a CCW is not an easy thing to get. I have a CCW for Utah and several other states and I had to go for gun training, background checks, etc, etc. Gun training was NOT by your good friend over a 6 pack. It was by a licensed instructor who has certain syllabus to go over. 2 people in the class were not up to par according to him and were washed out and had to retake it before he would certify them. Carrying safely and using it were part of the syllabus. You also had to show him you could fire within certain accuracy and control your fire according to his orders. It is definitely a good day's work

Gurkha · #23 02-21-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If they can pass the CCW? Sure. Not if they have had violent crime in their past.

I can live that way.

Why? Can't you call 911? Why don't YOU want to depend on them?

I'd be fine with it. Crooks won't but such is life.

CCW and non violent past still is no guarantee that the person won't loose his marbles and go on a shooting spree. When the other party is also packing, it would be OK Corral all around.

pj67coll · #24 02-21-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Only in situations where I know there is grave danger will I pack.

As you have no way of knowing the mental state of those around you that's a worthless train of thought. You will never know when you will need to defend yourself from a whackjob.

Quote:

I wouldn't feel good if I have to pack a weapon to go to my work.

Obviously you've never lived in South Africa.

It's real simple. The constitution of the US says in plain english that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So not only are these stupid gun free zones illegal they are on top of it dangerous to the unprotected student body and staff of these criminally stupid institutions.

You don't need every student or staff member to be armed. You only need a significant percentage. Why do you think there's never a police station shooting? Or a shooting range shooting? Or a security company shooting? Or a gunshop shooting?

Because these sick ****s will target only those they know to be defenceless because they're pissed off losers and they figure they world owes them. No fun in shooting up a target that's able to defend itself. You wont be a feature in the nightly news or the talk shows if you are killed within moments of starting your spree.

- Peter.

PaulC · #25 02-21-2008, 10:59 PM

Well, let's ban guns from college campuses. Problem solved, right?

aklim · #26 02-21-2008, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

CCW and non violent past still is no guarantee that the person won't loose his marbles and go on a shooting spree.

When the other party is also packing, it would be OK Corral all around.

There are NO guarantees in life. Just that the odds of that happening are less than if he didn't get checked out and had a non-v9olent past.

Wold you rather wait for 911? You said you would pack only in a dangerous situation. So what if some perp started shooting at you and you shot back, etc, etc? Won't it be the OK Corral too?

BAVBMW · #27 02-21-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I would agree to a point but every student carrying a gun is not the solution. Just imagine the situation during a typical school brawl that happens frequently all over the world over petty matters. Instead of fists, there will be lead flying around all over.

I don't know, when I was in high school, guns weren't exactly rare, I do know however that whenever one was presented during a fight, everyone stopped fighting real quick.

For the record, I'm in favor of people being allowed to carry. Openly, preferably as I feel it works as a deterrent. Concealed is fine also. The deterrent factor is reduced somewhat, but still present due to the uncertainty of who's carrying and who isn't. I think that denying anyone the right of self defense is wrong. As mentioned, the idea of schools (and other areas) being "gun-free zones" hasn't worked very well, maybe it's time we look at the alternatives. As for the "wild west" ideas, you know, the west really wasn't all that bad. Turns out, it was mostly peaceful, there were some crimes, but there always are aren't there? There were before guns, and there will be after guns.

MV

Matt SD300 · #28 02-21-2008, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

As you have no way of knowing the mental state of those around you that's a worthless train of thought. You will never know when you will need to defend yourself from a whackjob.

Obviously you've never lived in South Africa.

It's real simple. The constitution of the US says in plain english that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. So not only are these stupid gun free zones illegal they are on top of it dangerous to the unprotected student body and staff of these criminally stupid institutions.

You don't need every student or staff member to be armed. You only need a significant percentage. Why do you think there's never a police station shooting? Or a shooting range shooting? Or a security company shooting? Or a gunshop shooting?

Because these sick ****s will target only those they know to be defenceless because they're pissed off losers and they figure they world owes them. No fun in shooting up a target that's able to defend itself. You wont be a feature in the nightly news or the talk shows if you are killed within moments of starting your spree.

- Peter.

X2....

See, Gurk.. Just dont get it...any further talk/reasoning is a waste of time...

aklim · #29 02-21-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAVBMW

Openly, preferably as I feel it works as a deterrent.

Concealed is fine also. The deterrent factor is reduced somewhat, but still present due to the uncertainty of who's carrying and who isn't.

I think that denying anyone the right of self defense is wrong.

I think the deterrent factor is more with concealed. If I know you are carrying, I know I should not pick on you. HOWEVER, if I don't know who is and who isn't, I might have to treat carefully with everyone.

Not sure I would feel safe with criminals being allowed to pack. Now if he was a fraudulent check writer, that is one thing. Someone with domestic violence or assault with a deadly weapon past, well.....

BAVBMW · #30 02-21-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I think the deterrent factor is more with concealed. If I know you are carrying, I know I should not pick on you. HOWEVER, if I don't know who is and who isn't, I might have to treat carefully with everyone.

Ok, you got me there. When viewed from a greater perspective, that makes sense. I'll admit, I was only looking at it from a personal point of view, whereas I carry openly, making it a deterrnet from engaging me. I wasn't really thinking about society as a whole.

MV