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Old 03-06-2008, 05:20 PM
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Jerusalem - Gunman

By ARON HELLER and STEVE GUTKIN, Associated Press Writers 4 minutes ago


JERUSALEM - A gunman entered the library of a rabbinical seminary and opened fire on a crowded nighttime study session Thursday, killing eight people and wounding nine before he was slain, police and rescue workers said. It was the first militant attack in Jerusalem in more than four years.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip praised the operation, and thousands of Palestinians took to the streets of Gaza to celebrate.

The day's violence, which also included a deadly ambush of an army patrol near Israel's border with Gaza, was likely to complicate attempts by Egypt to force a truce between Israel and Palestinian militants. The U.S. is backing the Egyptian effort.

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev harshly condemned the shooting and said the Palestinian government must take steps against the extremists — not just denounce their attacks.
"Tonight's massacre in Jerusalem is a defining moment," he told The Associated Press. "It is clear that those people celebrating this bloodshed have shown themselves to be not only the enemies of Israel but of all of humanity."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice condemned it as an "act of terror and depravity."
Israeli defense officials said the attacker came from east Jerusalem, the predominantly Palestinian section of the city. Jerusalem's Palestinians have Israeli ID cards that give them freedom of movement inside Israel, unlike Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the attacker walked through the seminary's main gate and entered the library, where witnesses said some 80 people were gathered. He carried an assault rifle and pistol, and used both weapons in the attack. Rosenfeld said police were also searching for an explosives belt.

Two hours after the shooting, police found the body of the eighth victim. Rescue workers said nine people were wounded, three seriously. Earlier, officials had said dozens were hurt.
David Simchon, head of the seminary, said the students had been preparing a celebration for the new month on the Jewish calendar, which includes the holiday of Purim. "We were planning to have a Purim party here tonight and instead and instead we had a massacre," he told Channel 2 TV.

Yehuda Meshi Zahav, head of the Zaka rescue service, entered the library after the attack. "The whole building looked like a slaughterhouse. The floor was covered in blood. The students were in class at the time of the attack," he said. "The floors are littered with holy books covered in blood."
Witnesses described a terrifying scene during the shooting, with students jumping out windows to escape.

One of the students, Yitzhak Dadon, said he shot the attacker twice in the head. "I laid on the roof of the study hall, cocked my gun and waited for him. He came out of the library spraying automatic fire," he said.
Police said an Israeli soldier in the area then shot the man dead. After the shooting, hundreds of seminary students demonstrated outside the building, screaming for revenge and chanting, "Death to Arabs."
The seminary is the Mercaz Harav yeshiva in the Kiryat Moshe quarter at the entrance to Jerusalem, a prestigious center of Jewish studies identified with the leadership of the Jewish settlement movement in the West Bank.

It was founded by the late Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Hacohen Kook, the movement's spiritual founder, and serves high school students and young Israeli soldiers, and many of them carry arms.
"It's very sad tonight in Jerusalem," Mayor Uri Lupolianski told Channel 2 TV. "Many people were killed in the heart of Jerusalem."

In Lebanon, Hezbollah's Al-Manar satellite TV station said a previously unknown group called the Martyrs of Imad Mughniyeh and Gaza was responsible for the attack. The claim could not immediately be verified. Mughniyeh, a Hezbollah commander, was killed in a car bomb in Syria last month. Hezbollah has blamed Israel for the assassination.

Hamas stopped just short of claiming responsibility for the Jerusalem shootings. "We bless the operation. It will not be the last," Hamas said in a statement sent to reporters by text message.
At mosques in Gaza City and the northern Gaza Strip, many residents performed prayers of thanksgiving — only performed in cases of great victory to thank God.

About 7,000 Gazans marched in the streets of Jebaliya, firing in the air in celebration, and visited homes of those killed and wounded in the last Israeli incursion. In the southern town of Rafah, residents distributed sweets to moving cars, and militants fired mortars in celebration.
Rice said she spoke with Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni to express U.S. condolences to the people of Israel and the families of the victims of the attack in Jerusalem.

"This barbarous act has no place among civilized peoples and shocks the conscience of all peace loving nations. There is no cause that could ever justify this action," she said.
The attack came a day after Rice persuaded moderate Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to return to peace talks with Israel. Abbas briefly suspended talks to protest an Israeli offensive in Gaza that killed more than 120 Palestinians.

At his West Bank headquarters, Abbas condemned the attack. "The president condemned all attacks that target civilians, whether they are Palestinian or Israeli," a statement said.
The attack came on the same day Egyptian officials were trying to mediate a truce between Palestinian militants and Israel. The proposal, backed by the U.S., would stop rocket fire on Israel in exchange for an end to Israeli attacks on militants and the resumption of trade and travel from Gaza.

An Israeli official confirmed that Israel is open to the idea of letting guards from Abbas' moderate Fatah movement oversee Gaza's borders — one of the main tenets of the truce idea. But the Israeli spoke before the shooting, and it was not immediately known whether his country's position would change.

The Egyptian proposal reflected a growing realization that Israel's current policy of blockade and military action has failed to weaken Hamas, which has proven its ability to disrupt a U.S.-sponsored drive to forge an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal by the end of the year.

Still, a deal between Hamas and Israel was far from certain, with Israel fearing the militants will use any lull to rearm and Hamas raising tough conditions, such as a demand for Israel to stop targeting militants in the West Bank as well as Gaza.

Other militant groups are also likely to disrupt any attempts to restore calm. Early Thursday, Palestinian militants set off a bomb on the Gaza border, blowing up an Israeli army jeep and killing a soldier. Late Thursday, Israel said it shot a group of militants trying to plant a bomb in the same area. Palestinian officials said four militants were wounded in an Israeli ground attack.

There were no attacks by Palestinian militants in Jerusalem during 2007, though police and the military claimed to have foiled many attempts. Between 2001 and 2004, at the height of Palestinian-Israeli fighting, Jerusalem was a frequent target of Palestinian attacks, including suicide bombings on buses.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080306/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

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Last edited by LaRondo; 03-06-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:29 PM
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One can hardly wait for the "proportional response" by the Israelis.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:02 PM
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Yeah, this ought to go well...

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Old 03-06-2008, 06:11 PM
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One can hardly wait for the "proportional response" by the Israelis.
One Israeli life seems to equal 1000 palestinian lives.
Go figure.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:29 PM
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#1 Interesting tidbit: A student killed the attacker. Had all of the students been unarmed, how many more would he have killed?

#2 Some of the folks above are minimizing the murders above by presupposing a response that may or may not happen. And tell me, what is a proportionate response to murder? Good luck with that.
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:42 PM
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The Code of Hamurabi and the "Old Testament" (Exodus 21: 23-27) would suggest a proportional response was traditionally supported. Local laws vary. I noticed that the Colorado Air National Guard was not called out for air strikes in the Colombine school shootings, though.
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Old 03-06-2008, 08:52 PM
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The Code of Hamurabi and the "Old Testament" (Exodus 21: 23-27) would suggest a proportional response was traditionally supported. Local laws vary. I noticed that the Colorado Air National Guard was not called out for air strikes in the Colombine school shootings, though.
Not being a legal scholar, I'll take your word for it. But if you are going to use the Bible there are, I suspect, the occasional disproportionate response that was sanctioned by God Almighty. You could probably help me find them if you took the time.

Has there been a disproportionate response to the above shootings? Or are you preemptively passing judgement?

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Old 03-06-2008, 09:12 PM
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Face it, 'peace' in the Middle East is like asking for Ford to be as good as a W123.....it is not going to happen.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:12 PM
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Or are you preemptively passing judgement?
While not 100% accurate, it is still widely accepted that past behavior is a good indicator of future actions.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:21 PM
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Just another paragraph in a disgusting endless story.
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Old 03-06-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
#1 Interesting tidbit: A student killed the attacker. Had all of the students been unarmed, how many more would he have killed?
Can't really tell from the article, but it sounds like the soldier was not far behind in shooting the guy.




As for proportional response, there really isn't one since the culprit is already dead, but I don't think that's much of a deterrent. Some of theirs for some of ours has already been going on too long over there.
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:43 PM
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One can hardly wait for the "proportional response" by the Israelis.
And what exactly is a "proportional response" to the wanton slaughter of unarmed students by a fanatic?

There are reports that the Hamas is giving out candy and rejoicing in Gaza. Hamas leaders are proud of this "hero." Nice!
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:16 PM
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If Israel does nothing they will be seen as weak and an easy target so the militants will do it again.

If Israel calls in an airstrike and vaporizes a village in retaliation then this will be seen as heavy handed, unfair, widely criticized and then the militants will do it again.

If Israel figures out EXACTLY who did it and why and then takes out the leadership of that militant group in retaliation then the militants will do it again.

There is no way to will this unless one group annihilates another.

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Old 03-07-2008, 02:12 AM
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There are reports that the Hamas is giving out candy and rejoicing in Gaza. Hamas leaders are proud of this "hero." Nice!
Air strikes for dancing in the street? Nice.
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Old 03-07-2008, 07:43 AM
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The Code of Hamurabi and the "Old Testament" (Exodus 21: 23-27) would suggest a proportional response was traditionally supported. Local laws vary. I noticed that the Colorado Air National Guard was not called out for air strikes in the Colombine school shootings, though.
If the perps were a militant group you can count on much more than the National Guard, I don't think it's credible to compare the Columbine Trenchcoat Mafia to Hamas.


Last edited by Medmech; 03-07-2008 at 08:42 AM.
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