The cost of concrete has me looking at other options for basement walls of my latest adventure.

One option is wood. Not sure I'd trust it here with the termites. http://www.toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/Foundations/wood-foundations

Another, A mortored foundation wall using chunks of broken up concrete slabs and walks ("urbanite"). Rock wall but using concrete chunks for rocks. May be very labor intensive however, the material can be had for free. Other than the joint materials sand and cement.

Option three is a buried pole barn type structure using large creosote poles and steel channel horizontal girts sided by R-panel. This might be the easiest to construct and the material cost minimal as I have several large poles at the ranch already. Dented and cover sheet R-panels can be had for cheap.

In any case the footing requirements are minimal as it is solid rock at the depth I'm at now in the excavation (about eight feet). Setting poles will require a jackhammer to make a hole.

This is perhaps the largest undertaking I have ever done. The plan is to "pay as I go" on this house and end up with a very energy efficient, low maintenence place to retire. I hope to post the progress for those who might be interested.
At this stage I have about 600 of the 2000 sq ft basement hole excavated to the needed depth. Its slow going digging in rock and I am one man loading it on a truck then dumping it in other areas at the ranch for fill.
I'm at a halt today because the backhoe died and will not start. Looks like maybe the injection pump may have failed. I'm off to the ranch to try and force feed it by pressurizing the tank.

Anyone have an IP for a IH D179?

If there is no water issues then a rubble wall might be just fine.

Around here with the ground water issues I would consider nothing except poured concrete. Anything else will cost more in the long run.

Tom W

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I take it you mean a 'mortared' rubble wall???

I don't think I'll have a water issue. Its mostly rock which drains well and is located at the highest point of the site. Looking west there is a very steep drop to the valley some 100+ feet below. Plus, there will be an 8-10 foot overhang beyond the wall for the wrap around porch.

I got the backhoe running today and started trenching the drain channel to the edge of the cliff. I must have run it low on fuel on the slope.

We watched a beautiful sunset across the valley after spending most of the day measuring and laying out the site trying to save as many trees as possible.

I'm liking the ceosote pole idea the more I think about it. It would be no problem to extend the poles up to the roofline of the structure. Should be pretty stout with the base cemented four feet into rock down eight below grade.

I think concrete is the best alternatative, long term.

What about concrete blocks, waterproof the outside real well should be OK.

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1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

I agree however, the timely, costly formwork for a concrete wall would exceed the cost of the other options.

I don't have much faith in CMUs as a basement wall.

Pre-fab walls are popular around here.
http://www.superiorwalls.com/

The preformed styrofoam non removable forms are worth a look too but if cost is an issue I don't imagine they will work for you. I think they are pretty expensive.

The wood foundation may be fine too if your site is very dry.

We had a builder doing wood foundations here about fifteen years ago and they are a big ding on value now as a used home. They were cheap to buy back when new too though. They are pretty energy effecient too as it is easy to just put batts in the cavities between the 2 x 8 wolmanized studs. Keeping them dry is the main issue here.

Your site sounds lovely.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Wood fouindations???! Termites?!!!

__________________
2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car

It has to be treated wood to avoid the little buggers!

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

That looks interesting... Might be the way to go if they could be cast on site.

Tom,
I checked into ICFs and discovered they would more than double the cost. Polysteel and just about all the other manufactures require they be purchased thru their dealers. Most I found to be a little sleezy.

Regarding the thermal conductivity... I believe I might benefit by NOT having the wall insulated. The ground temp here at the depth I'm at remains fairly constant. If the wall stays dry then it will be a good bit of geothermal mass. May just have to dehumidify to keep the condensation down on the warm moist days.

Here's a pic of the hole. It about four times this size now.

And, one of many loads of rock being hauled.

Just beyond the trees in the background is the drop off to the valley. Next tall ridge is maybe three miles with nothing but trees, pasture, a running stream and a few cows in between.

Attached Thumbnails

   

Well, if the ground temp is consistantly averaging a temperature that is more desireable than the air temperature then, yes, no insulation will be the way to go.

It looks as if you have plenty of rock there to build with if it is as strong as it looks. It looks like limestone. Are you able to just dig it out? Or does it take a ripper or some other special device?

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

Yes, Limestone. It took me a while to get the hang of digging it out. Figured out by attacking it from different directions I can usually find a crack to snag a bucket tooth into. Comes up pretty well then.
There are some large shelf rocks that I cant budge. When I get a bit more done I plan on renting a bigger machine with a hydraulic hammer on the stick and attacking those.

The limestone should be good for making the foundation, but pretty labor intensive. When done it will look fabulous though.

There are a lot of older buildings around here with it as the foundation.

Tom W

__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

They cannot be cast on site. Is there somehow a restriction that would make it difficult to get them on site?

I use Superior Walls exclusively these days, both for basements and crawl spaces. Nothing beats them. We did a calculation of savings in concrete of their system vs. a 10" poured in place wall and there is a savings of 70%!

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Yes, $$$