The problem of no July is easily solved, considering that the Jewish calendar is used throughout the entire Old testament--no Julian calendar to worry about.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Back to the topic.
One of the claims made by Stein was that some areas of investigation into stem cells, were proscribed because they required a "God" viewpoint. ( At least I think I heard that--I wasn't taking notes)
No further information was provided, so I cannot speak to it, other than to say, if the allegation is true, it does "science" no credit, particularly as some of you say, that science is a search for truth.

Can I get some comments that do not involve calling anyone ignorant or stupid?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Re: translations
As for being "close", I would say that what we have is essentially what was originally written. By that I mean, no Christian doctrine is in doubt due to "iffy" text issues.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

It can't be. There was no Jewish calendar in Eden. That's the point. The current fashion for telling time for people has no bearing on what time is to god.
Anyway, we're on the same page regarding biblical dating. The fact that there are no actual dates in the bible is why there is no conflict with evolution.

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To elaborate on what I mean, I think the conflict between faith and science only begins once humans invent writing and religions embed themselves in written text. As long as religion was oral it was pretty easy to forget that we used to worship the river and changed our allegiance to the mountain god once the volcano went off.
But even with religions embedded in holy written text, there wasn't a widespread conflict between religion and science until the invention of the printing press and the invention of Protestantism. Prior to the printing press, the average believer's knowledge of religion and science was mediated thru the local priest. The only people who had to mitigate the conflict between the content of the written text and new scientific knowledge were the literate elite like Aquinas or Maimonodes. The average believer got their religion with the conflict resolved.
But when everyone started to read the printed copies of the Bible and get their own basic scientific education, the conflict became much more obvious. It is exacerbated by the fact that the conflict between science and science as opposed to between faith and science, is almost completely obscured by current scientific practices. Science departments throw out old textbooks as new developments take places and students never learn the history of science in their particular science classes (like Biology) but only the current state of the field. So science also seems up to date and authoritative as a result of this practice. Religion has never done that. Instead of throwing out the old texts and hiding the conflict between conflicting knowledge in human history, they keep reprinting the old text (with some exceptions as new religions evolve like Mormonism).
Maybe if religion takes a similar quantum leap that it took when culture moved from oral to written and religion becomes internet based where the content of religion is constantly updated, then the conflict between religion and science will once again fade into the background.
On the other hand, if we all had to read a sequence of science texts from the 19th century up to the present when we took science classes we'd be much more aware of the evolution and limited nature of scientific knowledge.

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Go watch Zeitgeist, you'd probably like it. The first third of the movie is about how Christianity is false, and breaks it down very well. The other two parts of the movie are about how the government was responsible, directly, for 9/11 and how the Federal Reserve system is responsible for poverty -- I'm not as fully on board with those claims as the first one -- but it's a great watch, if anything, expose yourself to a different point of view.

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IIRC, that was a cartoon in Playboy.

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That seems like 75% of the athiest pseudo-intellectual dogma is insulting people with opposing viewpoints .Hopefully the issues delt in the Expelled movie will open up some people's minds to see how biased and outdated the evolution religion is.

If a researcher wishes to take a point of scientific reference that seems untenable to the reviewers then he wont get funding from sources that use those reviewers. So you go to another source and apply. Repeat.

There are LOTS of very conservative people (in the religious sense) with lots of money. They fund research hospitals and universities. If those people believe that scientists are missing a whole rich field of scientific research in the affect of the deity on life, then they should (by God) pony-up and fund the research. Mindful of course, that scientists are pretty darned tough on methodology. You can do all kinds of research but scientific researchers have a persnickety bunch of rules. It doesn't mean other forms of research are wrong, it simply means they don't conform to scientific principles.

B

PS Most people who call other folks ignorant or stupid reveal more about themselves than the object of their contempt.

That's exactly what happened with ID. Stephen Mayer went to Howard Ahmanson and got him to pony up a lot of money to fund the Discovery Institute, the ID think tank attempting the 'Wedge' strategy and the institutional force behind much of the 'Teach ID--It's not Religious Creationism" in this country. The problem is that no one thinks that the Discovery Institute is a serious scientific institution so Mayer needs to get his work in respected scientific journals. To my knowledge, so far, ID'ers have been unsuccessful in this regard. Hence the end-around with his friend who was editing the journal in which his work was published and the controversy about the fact that his friend, the editor, approved the publication without vetting it to the editorial board.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Cool. Let them keep trying until they get it right. No worthwhile line of scientific enquiry has been a smooth, straight road. I see no reason why this one should be, either.

I like it that they are using private dollars to fund their work. I hope they get great mountains of private donations. Push hard, see what we get. Science will be better for it.

B

The New Yorker

I took his movie to be a parody. I thought he was agnostic and
was just making the movie to exploit the topic. I didn't think for
once that Ben Stein actually believed in ID. Weird how people
see different things when watching the same thing.

You talking 'bout the ultimate reality of the universe? or just the movie?

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