For those who wish to dish out on Christianity - Page 20 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tonkovich · #**286** 07-26-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Some you want to argue that Christians are "weak" and need God " as a crutch" to deal with life.
That may apply to some people, but not all.

How about a little "turnabout is fair play"?
I think that for some of the anti-Christian group, you do not want there to be a Creator-God,because you realize that such a Creator could have requirements that you do not want. Therefore you reject any ideas of God. Its not that there is not evidence of God; its that you want there to be no evidence for God.

no one is saying you are weak and need a crutch. and we are not "anti" christian. obviously, you will believe what you choose to. unfortunately, what you have chosen (hey, i know the scriptures) is a system that claims to be the "only" way.
as for "requirements" that we do not want, well if the requirements are to run around telling everyone we have the answer - well, no thanks. i don't know what happens after death. neither do you. you may have some ideas, but you can't be sure. why not concentrate on this life here, and live in the moment? follow some simple rules. the golden rule is simple enough. i don't need someone or some group to tell me what is obvious, i.e. don't steal. lie. cheat. kill. be kind and gentle, especially to children. like i said, its pretty obvious.

when you die, well, you'll know. til then, hey, concentrate on this life

Gurkha · #**287** 07-26-2008, 09:05 PM

I see that lot of Christians feel that if one is not a part of their belief, they are either in darkness or against them. This is the most self destructive attitude thats letting down Christianity today. As long as Christians will learn to tolerate others, there will be no hostility against them. Its the moment they force feed their version of the gospel of truth, creativity, sin etc. and totally deny other faiths which have been there before the inception of Christianity or even the ones that came after that things take a wrong turn. Coercion, proselytizing, looking down on other's belief system and faith all lead to bad blood and eventually a violent show down.

MS Fowler · #**288** 07-26-2008, 09:21 PM

There is a difference between "tolerance", and "equality"
I accept other people as people; their relationship with me is not based on their religion. I have some rather close friends that are definitely not Christians, but we still have a relationship.
I accept, even cherish their friendship but not their religious views.

MS Fowler · #**289** 07-26-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkovich

no one is saying you are weak and need a crutch. and we are not "anti" christian. obviously, you will believe what you choose to. unfortunately, what you have chosen (hey, i know the scriptures) is a system that claims to be the "only" way.
as for "requirements" that we do not want, well if the requirements are to run around telling everyone we have the answer - well, no thanks. i don't know what happens after death. neither do you. you may have some ideas, but you can't be sure. why not concentrate on this life here, and live in the moment? follow some simple rules. the golden rule is simple enough. i don't need someone or some group to tell me what is obvious, i.e. don't steal. lie. cheat. kill. be kind and gentle, especially to children. like i said, its pretty obvious.

when you die, well, you'll know. til then, hey, concentrate on this life

Based on your answer, I was not including you in that particular group. If you read the many pages of this thread you will see quite a few people calling Christians "weak", etc.

Gurkha · #**290** 07-26-2008, 09:28 PM

You don't tolerate friends, you accept them for what they are and respect their individuality and their sovereign right to their way of belief and practice. I have Christian friends and if they ask me to go to the Church, I do gladly and go through all the process needed there, same with my Muslim friends, I am not afraid of their beliefs but in case of Christians, they are taught to disrespect others and try their best to look down and convert and bring them to their flock.. Therein lies the difference. I have absolutely no qualms about giving respect to other's ways and beliefs as taught by my way of life.

tonkovich · #**291** 07-26-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

I see that lot of Christians feel that if I one is not a part of their belief, they are either in darkness or against them. This is the most self destructive attitude thats letting down Christianity today. As long as Christians will learn to tolerate others, there will be no hostility against them. Its the moment they force feed their version of the gospel of truth, creativity, sin etc. and totally deny other faiths which have been there before the inception of Christianity or even the ones that came after that things take a wrong turn. Coercion, proselytizing, looking down on other's belief system and faith all lead to bad blood and eventually a violent show down.

non judgemental religious beliefs - and believers - is a wonderful concept. however, i must state that it is - by the very nature of rigid belief systems, which some call cults - impossible.

btw, those who respond with vigorous assertions that they, thankfully, are not in a cult, will further prove the mind control/brainwashing that they have been subjected to.

example: see jeffrey schaler schaler.net on responses, including death threats, that he received when questioning the aa cult

peace

450slcguy · #**292** 07-26-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkovich

i don't need someone or some group to tell me what is obvious, i.e. don't steal. lie. cheat. kill. be kind and gentle, especially to children. like i said, its pretty obvious.

Exactly, live a clean and honest life and there is no need for religion.

But most of the religious nut jobs I've met will stab you in the back the first chance they get if it advances their careers or wealth. On Sunday morning they go to church and ask forgiveness. Come Monday morning and it's back to the same old routine. Instead of taking that forgiveness and modifying their behavior to be a better person, they use it as an excuse to continue their sinning, proudly proclaiming they were forgiven. How lame is that?

DieselAddict · #**293** 07-27-2008, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggihatetank

It's irrational to say we just popped into existance by mere chance

I agree that's totally irrational and unsupported by any evidence. Who says that kind of nonsense? You should do some reading on evolution.

DieselAddict · #**294** 07-27-2008, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Exactly, live a clean and honest life and there is no need for religion.

But most of the religious nut jobs I've met will stab you in the back the first chance they get if it advances their careers or wealth. On Sunday morning they go to church and ask forgiveness. Come Monday morning and it's back to the same old routine. Instead of taking that forgiveness and modifying their behavior to be a better person, they use it as an excuse to continue their sinning, proudly proclaiming they were forgiven. How lame is that?

This might be my biggest gripe about Christianity, especially the protestant type which to my understanding claims that you can be a murdering, child-raping filthy bastard but you'll go to heaven as long as you accept Jesus. That's totally lame.

Gurkha · #**295** 07-27-2008, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

This might be my biggest gripe about Christianity, especially the protestant type which to my understanding claims that you can be a murdering, child-raping filthy bastard but you'll go to heaven as long as you accept Jesus. That's totally lame.

Why single out Christianity and particularly Protestants.........all religions organized or otherwise have their fair share of deviants, perverts and crooks.

MS Fowler · #**296** 07-27-2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Exactly, live a clean and honest life and there is no need for religion.

But most of the religious nut jobs I've met will stab you in the back the first chance they get if it advances their careers or wealth. On Sunday morning they go to church and ask forgiveness. Come Monday morning and it's back to the same old routine. Instead of taking that forgiveness and modifying their behavior to be a better person, they use it as an excuse to continue their sinning, proudly proclaiming they were forgiven. How lame is that?

That is, indeed, lame.
The Book of James has something to say about that,
James is the one who talks about Faith without corresponding works is dead. IOW, actions need to follow the profession.

aklim · #**297** 07-27-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I think that for some of the anti-Christian group, you do not want there to be a Creator-God,because you realize that such a Creator could have requirements that you do not want. Therefore you reject any ideas of God. Its not that there is not evidence of God; its that you want there to be no evidence for God.

I don't follow. If you want to sell me your car for $5000 and I think it is too much and only worth $2000 (requirements that you do not want), I just walk. Do I have to pretend that your offer is not in the paper or that I went to see it (reject the idea)?

RichC · #**298** 07-27-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Its always risking speaking for others, but as "fools rush in..." I'll try.
In my experience many Christians have an error in their beliefs, Its not an error that, IMO, will keep them from heaven, but an error that prevents them understanding fully.
It is simply this--Some Christians believe that they somehow earned God's favor, That, somehow, they were better than other men, and so God elected them to salvation. This, IMO, leads them to pride, in their own "goodness". Then they feel superior to other people.

My study of Biblical doctrine teaches me that salvation is all of God. There is no good in me. I am dead in my sin. Dead men do not do anything to assist in their becoming not dead. It is all of God. I humbly accept the gift in full knowledge that I do not deserve anything but judgment from God.

As for believing some things that are hard for me, Yes, indeed. As a Christian, I do not sit in judgment on what the Word of God says; instead it judges me, and all mankind.

.

Dang, I get that.

Yours is not to wonder why, only to do or die.

But don't you think the god that created you gave you a mind
to use the best way you can.

Why would he give us the capacity to know right from wrong.
And then tell us not to use it, but listen to what he said, despite how we
may feel.

Seems like he would purposely be playing a trick or trying to make us upset.

And if you use the, devil maybe trying to fool us argument,
I will respond with, maybe the devil is messing with how you are
interpreting the words in your books.

RichC

.

mgburg · #**299** 07-27-2008, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I don't follow. If you want to sell me your car for $5000 and I think it is too much and only worth $2000 (requirements that you do not want), I just walk. Do I have to pretend that your offer is not in the paper or that I went to see it (reject the idea)?

Aklim:

Here's the beauty of Christianity:

Let's say I have the car, on consignment from GOD, and with the car comes a life-time supply of gas and maintenance, ALL FOR FREE, with only one string attached, and that string is that the new owner only has to read the Owner's Manual...

You come and take a look at it, drive it and bring it back...

Now, the decision is yours...and you don't have to pretend...

Will you take the car?

(Remember, IT'S TOTALLY FREE...just read the Owner's Manual...)

Heavy decision - will it bankrupt you?

tonkovich · #**300** 07-27-2008, 11:06 AM

i'll take a free car.

but is this some sort of allegory?