new ebay rules coming this fall
 

geez, how can they even think about doing this

Faster, more reliable checkout on eBay
Starting this fall, we're moving to an electronic checkout process that's faster and more reliable for sellers and buyers. As part of this move, checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay, although buyers can still use these payment methods for item pick-up, at the seller's discretion. In addition, the electronic payment methods will be fully integrated into eBay checkout. For example, if a seller has an internet merchant account, a buyer will be able to directly enter a credit card and never have to leave the site.

link to the horse's a$$ mouth
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200808.shtml#2008-08-15145546

These people seem to be able to do anything they please.........regardless of the wishes or the needs of the customer base. Onerous rules, very high fees, limiting payment options, lifting negative feedback, requiring linked Paypal accounts..........all designed to feed their pocketbook.

Unfortunately, since they are a veritable monopoly, they have the power to do as they please.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of the SOB's. I lost a very fine W-140 due to their failure to maintain a linked Paypal account...........it appears that this software is not quite up to par with them.

Nothing like insiting(sp) the masses for a good riot! Hopefully this won't go into effect and if it does I'll go back to good old fasioned garage sales and local flea markets. Makes it hard for someone who doesn't use credit cards.

All I use ebay for, is to gauge the going value of items, then I sell them on CL for free :D.

Use a debit card.

As opposed to you also being able to sell there as you please? If their customer base shrinks, perhaps they will change their ways. If not, it means it is going as they want.

I don't know why people have such a problem with Ebay. I perhaps have been lucky and never run across them except maybe once when they buyer took his time responding and I sold it to someone else.

You......perhaps.......don't have any problems with anybody or any entity. You expect the worst.........and you normally get somewhat better than the worst..........therefore, by definition..........you never have a problem.

Others don't think similarly..........

Unlike Aklim, I experience the occasional other problem, but ebay isn't one of them for me either, because I have absolutely no reason to use the ....?service?

I did purchase four crystal clarets on there several years ago, and when I saw the buy it now + shipping cost was $150 less than what I could do locally, I pulled the trigger, an hour into the sale and before a single bid was made. Several folks laughed at me for that--including my wife. I saved a trip to a store and $150. Go egay!:P

Several dedicated egayers made so much of my purchase, I printed out the You Won! page and have it framed in my office:D

Sometimes Good - Sometimes ad
 

Depends on the seller. I have seen folks selling items for 15 to 30% over what I can get the same stuff for locally and then i have seen very good deals on items i would have to order from across the country or internationally.

it all depends.

I pick up very good off lease laptops at 20% of original price and turn them around for local folks as an alternative to the manufacturers outrageous financing costs. Lots of the working class guys and gals I know have to get a good laptop for their kids for school and think they are getting a "deal" from Dell Finance. Sure if you like paying 29% interest and late fees that make the mafia look cheap!

But when I see somebody selling Craftsman tool sets at a higher price that they are on sale at Sears or obviously stolen Hilti tools I get really mad...but I just go elsewhere.

From what I can tell, 50 to 65% of the professional power tools on Ebay are either stolen or insurance scams by professional crews. Hilti tells me that they get a lot of folks comming in with tools that turn out to have been reported stolen in AZ or CA.

Seems this type of scam has risen with the economy!

But I want no part of it...

Anyway if you know what you want and what it is really worth and what the local price is you can make an informed decision to buy or not.

But Ebay is in the end, a corporation that makes its send off the thieves and then says "All we are is the venue, not the seller" which has been held up in court many times.

Aah, remember the old days of the Internet?

I wish I could fire up the Wayback machine and take a trip with Sherman and Peabody!

By YOUR defination, perhaps. What you seem to say is that because I think you are going to be an azzhole and you fulfill that role well by splashing red paint on my house, I won't have a problem that? Yes, I wouldn't be emotionally disappointed because you splashed my house with red paint but I don't see how that negates what you have done. There is a difference between being emotionally disappointed with the person/entity and being upset with what has happened.

I have set up myself on paypal with a checking account and a credit card. So far, I haven't had an issue with Ebay although I do expect them to do something silly once in a while. Or to make that clearer, I haven't had any "gotcha" moments with their procedures.

eBay/PayPal don't like losing that 3% fee they make on PayPal transactions! I am also still completely befuddled by the feedback change (sellers can no longer leave feedback for bad buyers). Oh well... it was fun while it lasted.

I would be befuddled too. Where is that at? I don't see it. I checked the "help" section and this is the closest I can get to it:

Buyers must wait at least seven days before leaving a negative or neutral Feedback for a PowerSeller who has been registered on eBay for at least 12 months.

I think csmc1 is referring to a change made a while back: sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers.

Sellers can still leave positive feedback for buyers, but if the text of the feedback comment is "negative" in nature, it is subject to removal by eBay.

Again, what is that written in the rules or announcements? I would like to take a look at it instead of having it 3rd or 4th party.

One could dig around and find it in the eBay announcements.

It's not just that sellers aren't supposed to leave negative feedback for buyers. The option to leave negative feedback for a buyer simply does not exist any more!

ETA: http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200805191013132.html

That announcement includes a link back to when it was originally announced back in January.

From what I have seen, they have replaced it with the "Seller's Reporting Hub". Whether it is going to be a fair system or leaning heavily towards the buyer, I don't know.

had a long talk with herb last night about ebay

let's review what ebay has done .................

seller can't leave anything other than positive feedback for buyer

required to take only paypal

buyer not happy, return it with a delivery confirmation, and the seller has a charge back, even if it's a brick in the box

and the kick in the nuts..............

score less than a 4.3 on their rating stars b.s. and you're banned from selling until you get it to 4.3 ~~~ sell 1-20 items a month and one person dings you, you're banned from selling till you get back to a 4.3

i'm still awestruck on what they're trying to do ~~~ how could anyone want to ever sell something on ebay again

This isn't strictly true. They don't want sellers to accept "paper" payments (checks and money orders), but accepting credit or debit cards through a merchant account is acceptable.

The reason to sell on eBay (as opposed to through some other means) is the same now as it has always been: buyers.

It's always a question of whether the benefits of eBay outweigh the disadvantages. They're changing the way they do things in a very big way, and that will affect different sellers differently.

For some sellers, this latest round of changes will be "the last straw".

For others, the low insertion fees (with higher final value fees) for fixed price listings may turn out to be a good thing. Time will tell.

(For what it's worth, I think that the way they've approached the whole "Detailed Seller Ratings" system is ridiculous in a whole bunch of different ways - deeply flawed from the beginning, and only getting worse over time.)

my .02

I just bought an item and the option to leave feedback whether it is positive, negative or neutral still exists. You cannot leave negative or neutral feedback for a power seller for 7 days.

Allow me to clarify:

When I wrote, "The option to leave negative feedback for a buyer simply does not exist any more!", I was referring to what a seller is allowed to leave for a buyer.

A buyer can leave positive, neutral, or negative feedback for a seller - or not leave feedback at all.
A seller can leave positive feedback for a buyer - or not leave feedback at all - no other options.

Exactly right, and another reason I am selling less on ebay. There is no reasonable reason to make that change, as far as I'm concerned.

They had to do something about sellers who issue retaliatory feedback to the buyer. The only reason for negative feedback by a seller should be a failure of the buyer to pay. But, sellers have chosen to wait until the buyer provides feedback.........and would definitely issue retaliatory feedback if the buyer was unsatisfied.

It had really become out of hand. Buyers would be very reluctant to issue a negative if they thought a retaliatory negative would be the result.

I think they could have handled it in a different manner. The seller should be given ten days to provide feedback.........no more. The buyer is given 60 days to provide feedback. Problem solved.

Disclosure first: as an occasional seller, I have in almost all cases left positive feedback for the buyer within a day after shipping the item (which is usually within a day or two of receiving payment). That's the way I've always done it as a matter of personal policy.

The retaliatory feedback problem was fueled, IMHO, by the way in which eBay allowed "mutual feedback withdrawal". Get negative feedback from a buyer? Neg 'em right back, then see if they'll agree to a mutual withdrawal.

Instead of aggressively going after those sellers who abused the mutual withdrawal process - or making that process more involved, or getting rid of it altogether - eBay just let it get really, really bad. Then, with typical eBay subtlety, they used a sledgehammer to adjust things.

Or the buyer takes forever to complete his end of the transaction.

That has been an issue too.

I can agree with that. Maybe one amendment. If the seller fails to give feedback in the 10 days, he'd better have a reason. Buyer? 60 days or a good reason. That way, nobody can hold anybody hostage and we have accurate results.

He wouldn't need a reason. He gets 10 days and then.........the window of opportunity is closed.........he cannot leave any feedback.

The current window is approx. 60 days for the buyer. That's about right.........gives time for shipping and time for the buyer to ensure that the product actually works as advertised.

If the buyer decides to leave a negative, he leaves it after the 10 day window has closed.........no retaliatory feedback is possible.

But if the seller doesn't leave feedback for you when you buy stuff from him, how would I, as a seller, know if you are a good buyer or not? IF you were a good buyer and failed to pay in 3 days, I might give you up to a week before I relist. IF you are a bad buyer, in 3 days, I relist.

Nothing you can do about sellers that don't leave any feedback. They've got 10 days to do so..........in my example.

Most e-bay sellers leave feedback within 10 days..........obviously..........not anymore.

I wish there was some way to make sure that we know one way or the other who we are dealing with.

What more do you require of a buyer besides payment? You certainly cannot require that a buyer never leave negative feedback for any seller, can you?

FWIW - I have never sold anything on ebay and have generally resisted such....

well now, with all this discussion (as reasoned and logical as it all is here), I am even LESS likely to list something on ebay. Fees, feedback, holding payment(!), shill bidding...F-that.

If I need something sold, I'm on craigslist.

Does he pay promptly or drag it out?

That's a good test. However, what is promptly?

If you say in your advertisement that you require payment within five days (for example), the buyer either keeps his end of the bargain or he does not. You cannot penalize the buyer for paying on the fifth day, since these are your own terms.

If the buyer waits until the sixth day, you consider it non-paid. That means that the buyer did not keep his end of the bargain, the payment to you.

No, you cannot peanalize him for doing paying at the very last second. What I want to see is whether you, as a buyer, will pay within the due date or whether I have to chase you down after the due date or whether I have to relist it, etc, etc. So, if you have a habit of paying on say day 6-20, I want to know if that is who I am dealing with. If so, I will want to take you off the bidding list. If you are they kind that pays instantly thru 2359 of the 5th day, I want to know that too. On occasion, I have sent the buyer the goods before payment because I cannot be in town to send it out at the time AND they have an excellent track record.

There are SO many ways an eBay selling experience can turn into a nightmare. I had a buyer bid on four old VW bug steel rims and then threaten a dispute and negative feedback when they were received because "they are rusty and one is wider than the others." All of these things, and more, were clearly stated in the item description, and yet this buyer demanded a full refund (incl. shipping which ran about as much as the rims sold for, as you might imagine). So there's one example; I would ask buyers to READ THE ITEM DESCRIPTION in addition to paying for the item in a timely manner. I would also ask that the buyers wait more than two days for an item to arrive, and to know that UPS and USPS tracking do not work in the same way at all (or at least trust me when I try to politely explain to them why their USPS shipment shows "electronic billing info received" even thought it's been in transit for days). I also expect buyers to respond honestly when a "SNAD" (significantly not as described) complaint is filed with PayPal. For a refund to be issued, PayPal requires that the offending item be returned to the seller. I have had people send old, broken junk or completely unrelated items back with delivery confirmation, and PayPal doesn't care. They issue a refund anyway. Mind-boggling.

eBay can be an absolute nightmare for sellers... trust me. It is absolutely false to say that as long as a buyer pays they have fulfilled their part of the bargain. I want to know, as a seller, if I am dealing with a buyer who has conned folks out of partial refunds or had unrealistic performance expectations for sellers. That's what feedback should be for.

Let's go with your example. What if you require payment within 5 days and on day 6, the item has still not been paid for. Do you know what PayPal/eBay will let you do at that point? I do: NOTHING!

If one hasn't been keeping up with the changes, it would be easy to be unaware of the degree to which eBay is pushing much more of a "retail buying experience".

The notion of sellers rating buyers simply doesn't fit in with that way of thinking. Too bad for you if you want to know what other sellers think of a prospective buyer.

Want to pay for an item? Pay through the eBay checkout system.
Want to communicate with a prospective buyer or seller? Do so only through the eBay messaging system.
Want to sell in certain categories? You must offer at least one shipping option that doesn't exceed a predetermined maximum - even if that's less than what it will actually cost to ship.

Never, never forget, though, that eBay is just a venue!

I'm not going to bother with a quote of #35 here, but that is a very good point. I suppose that I am projecting my own behavior as a buyer onto others, who do not deserve the trust. Can you tell that I've never sold anything on Ebay?

Can you get your listing fees refunded or a new listing without new fees? By the tone of your post, I would guess that it is a resounding "NO!"

If all eBayers were like you and I, eBay would be a great place! Yes, there are some real kooks using eBay (to buy AND to sell). As for the unpaid item strike, yes, I can have my fees refunded, but only after a lengthy reporting process and "investigation" by eBay. If, during the unpaid item dispute, the buyer responds AT ALL (even if just to say "screw you, I'm not paying"), they can leave me feedback (!). I can ask that that feedback be removed if and when the dispute ends in my favor (and yes, at that point I can have my fees refunded), but I cannot leave a negative for that buyer to warn others of their behavior, and I have to wait for this "investigation" to end before I can relist. Grrrrrr...

Anyway, suffice it to say that IN GENERAL, eBayers are a pleasant enough lot to deal with, and you can find some really fun and interesting things to buy there. It can also be a major pain, though!

Well, that's not exactly what I would call a "resounding no," but it is indeed quite a pain. In any brick-and-mortar store, I can walk in, talk to a salesman, tell him that I want something, fail to pay and walk out without my purchase. Why does Ebay need to make this so painful?

The resounding "no" comes when you try to enforce a 5-day payment period (or 10-day, for that matter). An unruly buyer can stretch that out for weeks if they play the system right, and hold up your sale until they either pay or eBay finally finds in your favor. So what I was arguing is that there is no way to enforce a 5 day payment period. If a seller re-lists an item on the 6th day after the bidding closes, the buyer can still submit payment and then lodge a non-performing seller complaint, for which the SELLER then gets spanked. eBay/PayPal rules trump any fine print or guidelines you list in your auction, sadly, and since they hold the money bag (and will be the sole holders of said bag if they make all their payments online in-house only).

If you don't go through the pain and risk of the "unpaid item dispute", then eBay keeps the final value fee that they charged you when the item "sold". To them, painful is good.

By the way, even if the seller "wins" the unpaid item dispute, the original listing fees are NOT refunded - just the final value fee. The item may be eligible for a normal relisting credit: relist the item, and IF it sells the second time around, then the insertion fee for the second listing will be refunded. Listing "upgrades" beyond the basic insertion fee are not refunded.

Can you get the same variety in any brick-and-mortar store? Would the price be the same? If not, aren't we comparing apples to oranges?

I believe that it is a fair comparison, as these are merely two venues.

I can't get the same variety in any one brick-and-mortar store, but you can't get the same variety from any one Ebay seller either.

Why should the price be a part of the discussion? I shop where I choose.

Interesting that you bring this up, Aklim, because it seems like eBay is attempting to force its sellers into behaving like B&M stores. I'm sorry, but I sell one-of-a-kind items, often antique, and I am NOT WalMart. I describe every item as best I can, and err on the side of caution. I would rather my buyers be happy than dissatisfied. Nevertheless, there are always the buyers who can't read descriptions, and eBay/PayPal want me to treat them the same way WalMart would someone who bought a pair of jeans and changed their minds. That's unreasonable, in my estimation. As you point out, they are two very different entities.

But you are using one Ebay seller vs a store yet you say Ebay is a venue. What about comparing any BAM store (venue) vs Ebay (venue).

Why not? Price is an important factor too.

That I can agree with.

Simply because of the size. It seems fair to me and apparently does not seem fair to you. But as I very rarely shop on Ebay, this difference of opinion between us really will have no impact on anyone. Even myself.

Yes, price is an important factor, but it is not the only factor. I do not always shop for the lowest price on everything that I buy. Often, I don't care if it is available slightly cheaper from an Ebay seller. I do buy things online quite often, though, just not from Ebay. I guess that I just do not like the format. It's too hard to find what I'm looking for. There's that pesky time factor, which is often more important to me than the final price.

I'm only comparing any BAM store with the Ebay site. I can't compare one buyer with a BAM store since I don't know of too many BAM stores that sell one type of item. In fact, other than fuel and food, I usually prefer to shop online for my stuff.

You are right that it isn't the only factor. Yes, if it costs me a lot of aggravation, it had best be dirt cheap or if it saves me aggravation, I expect to pay a little more. I have been waiting for a Super Wal*Mart to come into town and finally it has. Why? Because I can park there in their underground garage and not have to deal with the elements or a blazing hot car and I can get most of my shopping in one stop. So the convenience factor comes into play too. Home improvement I usually go to Home Depot since they are more convenient than Menards because they have an indoors shop whereas many other shops make me go into the outdoor side, etc, etc.

Here's a good one. I just sold an item to a buyer in the US Virgin Islands. He paid before I had a chance to send an invoice with shipping adjusted for the USVI and his PayPal address is not confirmed (so no seller protection). I clearly state in my auctions that I ship only to confirmed addresses when payments are made via PayPal, so I sent him a message after he paid that states that shipping will be higher, and that I must deny his payment since his address is not confirmed. The latter is thanks to PayPal; I have NO protection from him claiming the item was not received, and will automatically lose any claim that he files.

Here is his reply; I am sure I can count on a negative (my first as a seller EVER) if this transaction goes through:

"OMG!
Can you be any more negative & condensending?
I received a xxxx from ebay Via USPS PriorityE(10x3.5)for $11.351
UNCONFIRMED???
I`m PayPal VERIFIED and, can use the verified logo on my auctions!
I`ve been a PalPal user since 1999!Nine years!
In my Ebay profile, I`ve been a member since 2000, Ebay re-set my membership then(NO FAULT OF MINE), I`ve traded on Ebay since early 1997 that was when ebay was the worlds garage sale that welcomed the world!
Now it`s dominated by Power sellers/drop shippers & people like you who, want to make a killing on "handing fees"
Correct me if I`m wrong here...
I think you know what you can do with your old xxxx, if you treat the way you treat others,(one would hope you have a reason for being so negative, hopefully it`s not your nature)I`m sure it will fit easily!
No payment request,NOTHING, So I did what a buyer is supposed to do, obligated to do, PAY.
Bottom line, do you want to sell the xxx & ship @ cost or not?
redeem yourself in a positive way."

I think he received the auto-generated reply from PayPal that is sent out when a payment is denied due to an unconfirmed shipping address, as I have no other reasonable explanation for his "condescending and negative" comments. And I quoted him actual shipping according to USPS.com estimates plus $2 and change to help cover cost of packing materials. I'm not sure what his problem is, but this is the sort of crap sellers get to deal with all the time, and there is no mechanism by which to leave this guy negative feedback if he dings me (!).