Small business plan. - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Kuan · #31 11-05-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I suppose if you put it that way.

What is meaningful to me is if they can show that we spend $200 and we bring in more than $200.

You have an empty field. Level it off, build a road there, put in a well and sewer. Sell it. Money grows through work. But of course you knew that.

aklim · #32 11-05-2008, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

If that's the case, the deficit should be dropping.

Why not? If the rich spend the money in the economy...........or the government spends the money (or gives it away to be spent by others)..........what's the difference to the economy in total?

And since they cannot and in fact they show the deficit is going up IN SPITE OF their accounting tricks, can you blame me for being skeptical of how they will use this new found wealth if they increase the taxes? You stiffed me for $50 last time. Now I am to trust you with $100? You got to admit that is a tough sale. Now, if they could get their house in order and use the SAME accounting that we are forced to use, I might be more willing to trust them some more.

Not sure about that but I do know one thing. The rich have only so much to spend. Govt unfortunately does not. Govt spends more than it has on a daily basis. Some of it locally and some of it out of country. If I earn $500,000, I know I will spend most of it here. Govt, well...... Who knows where it ends up.

Brian Carlton · #33 11-05-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Benz

I find it ironic when I read other blogs and posts here about Obama's exhorbitant tax hike plans and the like, that no one seems to be pointing to the current multi-trillion dollar deficit...even if Obama does nothing, how does this country pay for that $700B bailout and the current bleed rate of the war effort?

Not ironic at all. The neo-con doesn't care what the deficit climbs to. He only cares about his own tax bill. The country is irrelevant..........only his own hiney is important here.

A $10T debt is fine..........just don't raise the taxes of the guy down the street with a taxable income of $300K...........(because we all know that I'm not making $300K).........it's the principle that matters.

aklim · #34 11-05-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Benz

I find it ironic when I read other blogs and posts here about Obama's exhorbitant tax hike plans and the like, that no one seems to be pointing to the current multi-trillion dollar deficit...even if Obama does nothing, how does this country pay for that $700B bailout and the current bleed rate of the war effort?

And yeah, it will be interesting to see if every criticism levied against the future prez will be considered having racial overtones...unfortunately, there are plenty of posts here and in other forums that contained very idiotic remarks that cannot be construed as anything but racist...

I'm not worried about the war. It costs less than what we blow off so even if we stopped the war today and ASSUMING that it doesn't come to bite us back in the butt, it still will not fix the deficit. You cannot fix the deficit, you cannot fix the debt. Obama will NOT be able to fix the deficit without cutting programs. He and his party cannot buy votes without programs. It is that simple. Until we stop all the govt meddling in our affairs, none of it will help. Problem is people want a fairy tale ending where the prince saves the day and they live happily ever after. So cut the programs. Which one? Well, I will tell you that since I don't have kids in schools, cut them. You will say that you have kids in schools so leave that one. But since we are both young, lets cut benefits to medicare and medicaid. However, we will have a couple of old geezers that tell us that we cannot cut those. So, since everyone has his/her sacred cow, the only way we can get it done is to find a new bunch of politicians that are willing to roll their career for the betterment of the country. You will find those people by the lake where the heard of unicorns and hodags gather.

Take that racist program out and see if anyone can say that the FUTURE generations got there because of it.

Brian Carlton · #35 11-05-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And since they cannot and in fact they show the deficit is going up IN SPITE OF their accounting tricks, can you blame me for being skeptical of how they will use this new found wealth if they increase the taxes? You stiffed me for $50 last time. Now I am to trust you with $100? You got to admit that is a tough sale. Now, if they could get their house in order and use the SAME accounting that we are forced to use, I might be more willing to trust them some more.

Not sure about that but I do know one thing. The rich have only so much to spend. Govt unfortunately does not. Govt spends more than it has on a daily basis. Some of it locally and some of it out of country. If I earn $500,000, I know I will spend most of it here. Govt, well...... Who knows where it ends up.

Ah......well.........AK off topic, yet again.

As I've oft repeated in all of the above posts...........the money has to go somewhere..............whether you like where it goes...........or know where it goes...........or trust where it goes...........is irrelevant.

aklim · #36 11-05-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The country is irrelevant..........only his own hiney is important here.

A $10T debt is fine..........just don't raise the taxes of the guy down the street with a taxable income of $300K...........(because we all know that I'm not making $300K).........it's the principle that matters.

Who doesn't think that way? We all do.

Raising taxes on the rich has always been popular from the standpoint that many of us don't make that kind of money. I know I don't but somehow I never cared for that sort of philosophy. To me, it is punishment for success. Oh, you make $300K? Fine. I'll tax you more. Why? Do you use more services? These are the people we should look up to. Try to be like them. Instead, we treat them like kulaks and want to punish them more or bleed them more.

Brian Carlton · #37 11-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Who doesn't think that way? We all do.

Speak for yourself.

Some of us have a larger view..........about 1/2 the forum, actually.

aklim · #38 11-05-2008, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

the money has to go somewhere

OK. Lets talk about the money going somewhere then. What you seem to be saying is that either the govt taxes me or I will spend it. Same difference since it all goes to the economy. I don't think so. Running a small business, I do know that if the taxes go up, it forces me to think again if I want to hire another guy or try make do with those I have. Say you raise my taxes by 10K. Well, a new employee will cost more than 10K so you think it won't affect my decision to hire a new person? I disagree. The more my taxes go up, the less likely I will be to hire someone. What that means is that if I don't hire that someone, you will get 10K more from me but that guy might miss out on 30K. People get spooked and might decide not to invest more in something because of the taxes. I know some do.

Brian Carlton · #39 11-05-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I know I don't but somehow I never cared for that sort of philosophy.

You're the typical hypocrite. Of course you love the philosophy. In the absence of the philosophy, we tax everybody the same amount of money for equal services rendered. The guy making $300K is taxed at a flat $30K and Lim, who's making $80K is also taxed at $30K.

How'd you like change of philosophy?

Didn't think so.

And, spare me the Fairtax nonsense...........it's never happening so deal with what we've got.

aklim · #40 11-05-2008, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Speak for yourself.

Some of us have a larger view..........about 1/2 the forum, actually.

And some of us are altruistic. I just haven't met anyone like that yet. Again, it is like bigfoot. You hear of him and some have seen tracks of him.

Brian Carlton · #41 11-05-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Running a small business, I do know that if the taxes go up, it forces me to think again if I want to hire another guy or try make do with those I have.

The discussion is "taxable income". Most small businesses are sub S corporations..........the profits flow directly to the owner of the business.

The additional marginal tax rate of 39% on the owner has no effect on his hiring decisions. It's just a talking point on the right.........total BS.

aklim · #42 11-05-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

You're the typical hypocrite. Of course you love the philosophy. In the absence of the philosophy, we tax everybody the same amount of money for equal services rendered. The guy making $300K is taxed at a flat $30K and Lim, who's making $80K is also taxed at $30K.

How'd you like change of philosophy? Didn't think so.

And, spare me the Fairtax nonsense...........it's never happening so deal with what we've got.

Amazing. You pilot boats and read minds on the side? I don't make 300K so why would it bother me one way or the other whether he is taxed 30K or not?

How do you know I am not good with it?

Of course it will not work here. Politicians will not like it. It gives them ONE source of income. If they have to raise taxes, everybody will scream and yell. This way, they have so many taxes you won't realize that they are taking little bits here, little bits there. Instead of asking you for $100 and then later having to raise it to $110, they will tax you $20 here, $30 there, $5 over here, etc, etc till it comes to $150 and you won't be the wiser.

aklim · #43 11-05-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The additional marginal tax rate of 39% on the owner has no effect on his hiring decisions. It's just a talking point on the right.........total BS.

I see. So your point is that you can tax me more because I am a small business owner and I will not be able to move my business overseas (captive audience) and it will not have any effect on whether I hire someone or not? How did you come to that conclusion, may I ask? Lets say I am a Sub S and the profits go to me directly. Lets use some small round numbers. This year, I cleared say $100K and am taxed $20K. That leaves me $80K. Next year, you want to tax me $25K and it leaves me $75K. What you are saying is that I will just lump it and take $75K without trying to take more out of the business to make the 80K?

Brian Carlton · #44 11-05-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Amazing. You pilot boats and read minds on the side? I don't make 300K so why would it bother me one way or the other whether he is taxed 30K or not?

How do you know I am not good with it?

Of course it will not work here. Politicians will not like it. It gives them ONE source of income. If they have to raise taxes, everybody will scream and yell. This way, they have so many taxes you won't realize that they are taking little bits here, little bits there. Instead of asking you for $100 and then later having to raise it to $110, they will tax you $20 here, $30 there, $5 over here, etc, etc till it comes to $150 and you won't be the wiser.

You missed the point. It's not the fact that his taxes drop from $80K to $30K. It's the fact that your taxes rise from $20K to $30K. Get it? I know GD well you don't make 300K and I stuffed 80K for the argument. Get over it.

Ahh.........you'd be paying another $10K..........how about that?

Exactly.

Brian Carlton · #45 11-05-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I see. So your point is that you can tax me more because I am a small business owner and I will not be able to move my business overseas (captive audience) and it will not have any effect on whether I hire someone or not? How did you come to that conclusion, may I ask? Lets say I am a Sub S and the profits go to me directly. Lets use some small round numbers. This year, I cleared say $100K and am taxed $20K. That leaves me $80K. Next year, you want to tax me $25K and it leaves me $75K. What you are saying is that I will just lump it and take $75K without trying to take more out of the business to make the 80K?

Let's use some real round numbers.

This year you have a taxable income of $400K and you have a marginal tax rate of 36% on the income from $250K to $400K........total tax of $54K.

Next year you again have a taxable income of $400K and Obama raised the marginal rate to 39.5% for income above $250K. Your marginal tax rises from $54K to $59.25K.

Now, try to make a case for firing an employee because you, personally are short $5.25K

Total BS.........as I told you.