Small business plan. - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #46 11-05-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

You missed the point. It's not the fact that his taxes drop from $80K to $30K. It's the fact that your taxes rise from $20K to $30K. Get it? I know GD well you don't make 300K and I stuffed 80K for the argument. Get over it.

Ahh.........you'd be paying another $10K..........how about that?

Exactly.

So let me understand you. You are saying that if he has to pay $30K just like me I'd be pissed because my taxes went up from $20K to $30K? Can I ask how you know this? Seeing as how I think you are wrong in that assumption.

aklim · #47 11-05-2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Now, try to make a case for firing an employee because you, personally are short $5.25K

Total BS.........as I told you.

I'm not sure how I would make a case either way other than to tell you that if I had to hire a new employee next year or replace one that quit, it would factor into the decision that my take home will be less. Will it be the "dealbreaker"? At that level, probably not. Will it have some effect on my decision? IOW, will I try to see if I can make do without? I would have to honestly say it would.

Let me give you an example. I am over the 80K mark, household wise. As such, even if I found $10 tomorrow, it won't change my life. IOW, it is not a matter of whether I eat or not. Last year, we had a bunch of kids go "superglue" quarters to the floor to see who picks it up and have a chuckle. Know what I did? I took my Leatherman out and chiseled out the money. Didn't affect me financially but money is still money. $5.25K in my wallet, whatever I make is $5.25K whether I make 1 million or $20K a year.

Brian Carlton · #48 11-05-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So let me understand you. You are saying that if he has to pay $30K just like me I'd be pissed because my taxes went up from $20K to $30K? Can I ask how you know this? Seeing as how I think you are wrong in that assumption.

Let me get this straight? You're OK if the average working stiff has to pony up another $10K per year in taxes provided that all taxpayers are taxed the same amount of money for the same use of services?

Do I have that right?

Yes, I suppose anything is possible from you..........but, as a person who is primarily concerned with his own welfare and not with the welfare of anybody else, I'm just not buying it.

Brian Carlton · #49 11-05-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I'm not sure how I would make a case either way other than to tell you that if I had to hire a new employee next year or replace one that quit, it would factor into the decision that my take home will be less. Will it be the "dealbreaker"? At that level, probably not. Will it have some effect on my decision? IOW, will I try to see if I can make do without? I would have to honestly say it would.

Let me give you an example. I am over the 80K mark, household wise. As such, even if I found $10 tomorrow, it won't change my life. IOW, it is not a matter of whether I eat or not. Last year, we had a bunch of kids go "superglue" quarters to the floor to see who picks it up and have a chuckle. Know what I did? I took my Leatherman out and chiseled out the money. Didn't affect me financially but money is still money. $5.25K in my wallet, whatever I make is $5.25K whether I make 1 million or $20K a year.

The Obama tax plan will not have any effect on small business hiring and firing...........if the business needs the employee to make more money........they hire the employee. If the business is overstaffed for the amount of income.........they fire some employees. It's not rocket science.

At some point, you'll forego the $5.25.

I have.

aklim · #50 11-05-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Let me get this straight? You're OK if the average working stiff has to pony up another $10K per year in taxes provided that all taxpayers are taxed the same amount of money for the same use of services?

Do I have that right?

Yes, I suppose anything is possible from you..........but, as a person who is primarily concerned with his own welfare and not with the welfare of anybody else, I'm just not buying it.

Yes you have that right. As long as there are no loopholes where say the guy making $500K can dodge his $30K by stuffing money into a fund or whatever. IOW NO LOOPHOLES.

Yes, my attitude is "Me first!" simply because I don't see enough people that would put me first over their own needs. What can I tell you? I like everything to be the same whether you make $50K or $999K. Don't forget that the side benefit to it will be that to get more money, govt will have to raise taxes on everybody which makes it harder than the popular "tax the rich".

Brian Carlton · #51 11-05-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Yes you have that right. As long as there are no loopholes where say the guy making $500K can dodge his $30K by stuffing money into a fund or whatever. IOW NO LOOPHOLES.

Yes, my attitude is "Me first!" simply because I don't see enough people that would put me first over their own needs. What can I tell you? I like everything to be the same whether you make $50K or $999K. Don't forget that the side benefit to it will be that to get more money, govt will have to raise taxes on everybody which makes it harder than the popular "tax the rich".

Amazing. Well, you fully realize that it's not happening.........that would put the rich folks well beyond their current situation and the middle class in the toilet.

While eminently fair based upon services consumed, it's not a reality.

aklim · #52 11-05-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The Obama tax plan will not have any effect on small business hiring and firing...........

if the business needs the employee to make more money........they hire the employee. If the business is overstaffed for the amount of income.........they fire some employees. It's not rocket science.

At some point, you'll forego the $5.25.

I have.

Many politicians have told us that this tax or that will not affect anything. It will be painless and nobody will even notice. Sounds like a nice dream. All the benefits and no drawbacks. Almost too good to be true.

If only it were that simple. Somehow, it isn't. What about if they are in the middle and not so conveniently on one side or the other? You see, I find myself in that position right now. Hire someone to help out or toss in a few more hours. So far, the toss in a few hours is winning.

Fine. You have my email. Paypal it to me.

aklim · #53 11-05-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Amazing. Well, you fully realize that it's not happening.........that would put the rich folks well beyond their current situation and the middle class in the toilet.

While eminently fair based upon services consumed, it's not a reality.

As I have said, it will force politicians to do one of 2 things. Spend within their means (more than now) or raise taxes on everyone (unpalatable option). So no, it will never happen. Easier to forgo a few votes from the rich than to forgo the votes from the masses so they will go with the current platform of "tax the rich, help the poor" when they are helping themselves.l

Neither is Jenna Jameson and Briana Banks and Tera Patrick in my bed tonight but doesn't mean I won't want it that way.

rwthomas1 · #54 11-05-2008, 06:10 PM

Cash is king.

RT

PaulC · #55 11-05-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

OK. Lets talk about the money going somewhere then. What you seem to be saying is that either the govt taxes me or I will spend it. Same difference since it all goes to the economy. I don't think so. Running a small business, I do know that if the taxes go up, it forces me to think again if I want to hire another guy or try make do with those I have. Say you raise my taxes by 10K. Well, a new employee will cost more than 10K so you think it won't affect my decision to hire a new person? I disagree. The more my taxes go up, the less likely I will be to hire someone. What that means is that if I don't hire that someone, you will get 10K more from me but that guy might miss out on 30K. People get spooked and might decide not to invest more in something because of the taxes. I know some do.

Just by chance, would a determination of the ROR on the investment in a new employee have an impact on your decision to hire that employee?

PaulC · #56 11-05-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The Obama tax plan will not have any effect on small business hiring and firing...........if the business needs the employee to make more money........they hire the employee. If the business is overstaffed for the amount of income.........they fire some employees. It's not rocket science.

At some point, you'll forego the $5.25.

I have.

Ah, Brian beat me to it.

aklim · #57 11-05-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Just by chance, would a determination of the ROR on the investment in a new employee have an impact on your decision to hire that employee?

Rate of Return? I would think it would factor into the decision.

PaulC · #58 11-05-2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Rate of Return? I would think it would factor into the decision.

My point, as is Brian's.

aklim · #59 11-05-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

My point, as is Brian's.

Which is what? That the higher taxes will have ZERO influence on the hiring? Lets assume that if nothing changes economically, my decision process will weigh it out and go from there. What you are Brian seem to be saying is that if I (me personally) am taxed more this, it will have zero effect as far as influencing the decision as to whether I want to hire someone else or try make do with the staff I have, cut a few corners, etc, etc. Is that your point?

If it were a cut and dry decision, say the machine takes 3 people and I have 2, it will not affect anything. But if the issue is whether I am willing to put in a few more hours or hire someone, well.....

Brian Carlton · #60 11-05-2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Which is what? That the higher taxes will have ZERO influence on the hiring? Lets assume that if nothing changes economically, my decision process will weigh it out and go from there. What you are Brian seem to be saying is that if I (me personally) am taxed more this, it will have zero effect as far as influencing the decision as to whether I want to hire someone else or try make do with the staff I have, cut a few corners, etc, etc. Is that your point?

If it were a cut and dry decision, say the machine takes 3 people and I have 2, it will not affect anything. But if the issue is whether I am willing to put in a few more hours or hire someone, well.....

The decision to hire an additional employee is dependent strictly on how much income the employee can produce for you.........and has absolutely nothing to do with the marginal tax rate of the owner.

If the owner is basing his hiring decisions on how much aftertax money he posseses..........he's a moron..........but, no surprise there.