Cops on the beat, and Packards - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Benzadmiral · #1 11-05-2008, 10:54 AM

Maybe some of you have grandparents who could answer this.

I'm working on a new short story, set in January of 1933, in which one of the three major characters is a young cop on the Cleveland force. I know that uniformed cops walked their beats in those days, ranging up and down the streets in their district, checking for anything suspicious, rattling doorknobs, etc., and checked in with the station via call boxes.

Would a beat cop in those days have been armed with anything more than a nightstick, and maybe even a blackjack? Would he have had a gun? If so, what caliber was standard issue in those days, .32 or .38? Or was there no standard, and a beat cop could choose his armament?

Second question: Were there any luxury cars of that time, like Packards, that had *trunks*? All the pics I see on the 'net are of touring cars, which had no trunk, and of roadsters, which have space over the rear wheels but have rumble seats in that position. Did carmakers only create trunks later, after rumble seats went out of fashion?
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Carleton Hughes · #2 11-05-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

Maybe some of you have grandparents who could answer this.

I'm working on a new short story, set in January of 1933, in which one of the three major characters is a young cop on the Cleveland force. I know that uniformed cops walked their beats in those days, ranging up and down the streets in their district, checking for anything suspicious, rattling doorknobs, etc., and checked in with the station via call boxes.

Would a beat cop in those days have been armed with anything more than a nightstick, and maybe even a blackjack? Would he have had a gun? If so, what caliber was standard issue in those days, .32 or .38? Or was there no standard, and a beat cop could choose his armament?

Second question: Were there any luxury cars of that time, like Packards, that had *trunks*? All the pics I see on the 'net are of touring cars, which had no trunk, and of roadsters, which have space over the rear wheels but have rumble seats in that position. Did carmakers only create trunks later, after rumble seats went out of fashion?
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Depends on the location of the police force or the whim of the higher-ups in purchasing mostly.Almost universally revolvers,particularly Colt and S&W.in .38.
Until 34-35 most 4 door sedans had separate trunks,although some custom coachbuilders integrated them this was mostly rare.2 seater convertibles were fitted with trunks as well as rumble seat coupes,the rumble seat taking up useful space.

Popular luxury makes were Lincoln model K,Pierce-Arrow 12.Packard 12's,Caddy V-12&V-16,Marmon 16,Buick series 90,Duesenberg J,Cord L29 and a few others not as popular like Springfield Roll-Royce,Isotta-Fraschini,Hispano etc.

The criminals favored Caddies and Lincolns for their smoothness and speed.

Benzadmiral · #3 11-05-2008, 11:31 AM

Thanks, Carleton,

Hm. So whether or not the average beat cop was armed was up to the local jurisdiction? (Officially armed, that is, issued with a weapon or required to buy one himself. I expect some of them might well have tucked a .32 away in a pocket, like today's cops with "hideaway" or "boot" guns.)

Oh, and when I said "trunk," I mean a storage space of the kind we have today, integrated into the body -- not the steamer trunk attached to brackets and projecting over the rear bumper. Is that the kind you meant? Or did you mean that integrated rear storage was only found on custom bodies? I need a car that could have had room to store a full-sized male human, folded up if necessary. A custom Packard roadster?

Here's what I think is a Hudson or Essex Terraplane: http://www.kitfoster.com/images/2006-3-8_TerraTrunkWeb-Large.jpg But somehow I don't see that trunk as big enough for a person!
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Carleton Hughes · #4 11-05-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

Thanks, Carleton,

Hm. So whether or not the average beat cop was armed was up to the local jurisdiction? (Officially armed, that is, issued with a weapon or required to buy one himself. I expect some of them might well have tucked a .32 away in a pocket, like today's cops with "hideaway" or "boot" guns.)

Oh, and when I said "trunk," I mean a storage space of the kind we have today, integrated into the body -- not the steamer trunk attached to brackets and projecting over the rear bumper. Is that the kind you meant? Or did you mean that integrated rear storage was only found on custom bodies? I need a car that could have had room to store a full-sized male human, folded up if necessary. A custom Packard roadster?

Here's what I think is a Hudson or Essex Terraplane: http://www.kitfoster.com/images/2006-3-8_TerraTrunkWeb-Large.jpg But somehow I don't see that trunk as big enough for a person!
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Ohh,I see. Trunks integrated into the body were very seldom seen on touring cars or sedans before '34 at least.On coupes and roadsters not equipped with a rumble seat large trunk space was de rigeur.especially on the larger luxury cars,some of which could be ordered with expensive fitted luggage.You could easily fold a person into a Ford Model A trunk,moreso in a larger car.Many also had a small door on the side,right behind the driver's door,this was anywhere from 12-18 inches or so and was called a "golf club"door,for obvious reasons.

Benzadmiral · #5 11-05-2008, 11:57 AM

Ah. So a car like a Packard or Cadillac roadster could be ordered with an integrated trunk instead of a rumble seat? All the pics I've been able to find show the cars with rumble seats -- and I guess those have survived and been restored because they're unusual. A Packard with an in-body trunk wouldn't be such a curiosity to car collectors today, I suppose.
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Carleton Hughes · #6 11-05-2008, 12:03 PM

Absolutely.Only a small portion of _luxury_ car chassis ever carried factory coachwork.Most chassis was still sent out to well known coachbuilders such as Murphy,Rollston,Locke,Brunn,Bohman & Schwartz and many others too small to merit inclusion here.

LUVMBDiesels · #7 11-05-2008, 12:09 PM

Can you change the time to 1935-36? Most cars had fairly large trunks integrated into the body by then... Buicks and Dodges had "Two body" trunks

Also most plain clothes cops would cary snubnose revolvers similar to the Colt "Detective's Special"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Detective_Special

Most beat cops carried a Police Special
http://www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/coltp_083106/

Benzadmiral · #8 11-05-2008, 12:27 PM

Hi, LuvMBDiesels,

I'm not dead set on 1933. The time just before Roosevelt was inaugurated and Prohibition ended seemed like a good period. Maybe I could set it later. But as Carleton has pointed out, the luxury car market, small though it was then, allowed you to customize your car to your needs, and a Packard coupe of that time could have had a big trunk integrated into the body.

That Police Special revolver -- wasn't it one of those that they used to fire to illustrate "faster than a speeding bullet" in the George Reeves "Superman" TV series?

It would make much more sense for a cop, even in those less frantic times, to go armed. In Britain, I understand, the bobbies weren't armed, but our cops had to deal with a much wilder criminal element than they did.
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MS Fowler · #9 11-05-2008, 12:39 PM

Ford V8s were also highly favored by criminal types--for their speed. ( Just in case you didn't know, the V8s were produced from '32 on, so 1933 would be a good time for them. It wasn't only the power, as the early V8s were 70HP or so, but Fords were always much lighter than their competitors, and hence the power-to-weight ratio was very favorable.)

Benzadmiral · #10 11-05-2008, 01:17 PM

As a matter of fact, one of the other three major characters is using a Model A. According to Wikipedia, that model ended its run in 1931, and the successor, the Model B (or Model 18?), had the V-8; is that right?

The Swede · #11 11-05-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

As a matter of fact, one of the other three major characters is using a Model A. According to Wikipedia, that model ended its run in 1931, and the successor, the Model B (or Model 18?), had the V-8; is that right?

Yep, 32 was the first year for the flathead V8. I don't recall use of the term model 18 much, just model B.

MS Fowler · #12 11-05-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

As a matter of fact, one of the other three major characters is using a Model A. According to Wikipedia, that model ended its run in 1931, and the successor, the Model B (or Model 18?), had the V-8; is that right?

I believe that Model 18 was the in-house Ford term. For public consumption it was simply the V8. The Model B was the same car as the V8, but with an improved 4 cyl engine of 50 HP, vice the 40HP of the "A". Ford had some initial difficulties with the casting of the V8 block, as well as other problems from distributors to pistons. He offered the 4 cylinder so as not to have all his eggs in one basket.

daveuz · #13 11-05-2008, 11:50 PM

A 1933 Terraplane 8 produced somewhat more HP than Fords V8. Did well at Pikes peak (record holder for 20 years) and served Dillinger well. "A lesser known but potent contender during the 1930s was the Hudson (Essex) Terraplane, introduced in July of 1932. It was a bit smaller and lighter than the '32 Ford, and carried a 70 horsepower flathead six, giving it a better power-to-weight ratio than the heavier Ford. The Terraplane's Acceleration was quite lively. In '33, the Terraplane offered a 244 cubic inch, 94 horsepower in-line eight, which could strike terror into the hearts of Ford V8 owners.

t walgamuth · #14 11-06-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benzadmiral

Hi, LuvMBDiesels,

I'm not dead set on 1933. The time just before Roosevelt was inaugurated and Prohibition ended seemed like a good period. Maybe I could set it later. But as Carleton has pointed out, the luxury car market, small though it was then, allowed you to customize your car to your needs, and a Packard coupe of that time could have had a big trunk integrated into the body.

That Police Special revolver -- wasn't it one of those that they used to fire to illustrate "faster than a speeding bullet" in the George Reeves "Superman" TV series?

It would make much more sense for a cop, even in those less frantic times, to go armed. In Britain, I understand, the bobbies weren't armed, but our cops had to deal with a much wilder criminal element than they did.
.

I think guns were always carri8ed by law enforcment officers from the midwest and west. I wouldn't be surprised if that in the east perhaps they only had sticks like the brits.

SirNik84 · #15 11-06-2008, 06:31 PM

I watched a show on the history channel about bootleggers. they used all kinds of space, not only the trunk. It was a very interesting show. Hosted by some guy from the WWF. I don't know what happened to that show...

If you can imagine it they stuck boos in it.

I don't know if you are looking to stuff a body or something else. but cars back then were built on frames, more like trucks are built today, with no regard for weight or size. they never tried to stuff things in the engine bays or route things such that they saved space. it was about functionality, and then a coach builder made them look good.

what I'm trying to say is there is a lot of unaccounted for space. and the criminals used every bit of it.