There's some truth to that, but again, today it's not as much boots on the ground as it is wheels/tracks on the ground. Guns won't do much in that situation.

As to your last point, I have a different view. You sound idealistic, but if push came to shove, would you really live up to the rhetoric? I don't believe in the afterlife, God or any such crap, so perhaps for me life is more valuable than it is for you. Also I come from a different background. You may recall how Nazis invaded Czechoslovakia, yet there was little resistance after the allies abandoned us. IMO it was a wise decision. The Nazi rule ended in the next decade and lives & historic buildings were spared. Well then there was the Soviet invasion, but again the odds were overwhelming and life wasn't really that bad. And that thing eventually ended too. To me personally life would have to be really bad for me to consider sacrificing myself for some cause. To me almost any life is better than death. Call me a wuss if you like to, but I consider myself a pragmatist.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

I wouldn't call you anything as long as you respect my freedom to choose to fight to the last breath for my freedom with the devices necessary to be effective. What I find distressing is that too many folks who share your understanding of life and the devices necessary to defend innocence is that not only do they not want guns, they don't want the rest of us to have them...and I'm not talking about hunting guns. You know what they say in Russia....Toughski.

That explains alot.

Too bad,I have seen too many miracles not to believe in God.

The world is also full of horrible things happening.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Just to clarify, I didn't say I didn't want any guns. I'm just saying I find it ridiculous that some people say the main reason to have guns is to fight your own government should it become tyrannical. I think there are much better reasons to have guns.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

You find yourself at odds with the founders of this country. They new tyranny first hand and they understood the need to defned freedom from central powers. Fortunately, their and your perspectives are antipodal.

Like I said it was a different time then and the government had no better weapons than the general population. It would have worked then. There's little chance it would work today. It's also a double-edged sword. What if the country became, say, extremely liberal on social issues and heavily armed and overthrew the government and forced gay marriage and a vegetarian diet on everyone. How would you like that? Personally I don't trust the general population any more than I trust the government.

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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

Exactly. It is my contention that the public has a natural right to any arms likely to be used against it by central powers. Either we need better access to fully automatic arms, chemical weapons, armored personel carriers and such or the State must abandon their use on the public.

As to the other question, if the public wants and elects gay marriage and vegetarian policy, then so be it. I may not like it, but that is democracy. However, I'd like you to show me where those issues are recognized by the constitution.

I trust the public more than I trust govt.

I think the point is that even if the US Army gets in bed with a dictatorship they would be defeated if 70 or 80 or 120 million people rise up against it even armed with semi-auto rifles. Look at what the Red Chinese did in Korea. They had guys running into our lines without guns, just with pointed sticks and they ran over us.
Look at ther Viet Cong -- they mostly had bolt action rifles with some AK-47's but they caused hell for us.

The idea is numbers vs technology. No government will want to face the wrath of 100 million armed citizens.




I don't know if I trust the people as much as you do. If you look at Parlimentary type democracies, which is basically mob rule, they get themselves into trouble much more often than we do with our traditional checks and balances. I do like the idea of referendums to keep the legislature honest (if we had that power in NY they would NEVER have been able to sell the prison system to the NYS Thruway Authority and keep the tolls on the roads 20 years after they were paid off to finance Attica) as long as referendums are stll subject to rulings by the Supreme Court. Otherwise we could have a referendum to scrap the Bill of Rights, impose Veganism & etc... Of course if the Sups get packed by a certain ideology and that ideology also controls the other two branches of government, all bets are off.

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"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy"

Current
Monika '74 450 SL
BrownHilda '79 280SL
FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban
Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee
Krystal 2004 Volvo S60
Gone
'74 Jeep CJ5
'97 Jeep ZJ Laredo
Rudolf ‘86 300SDL
Bruno '81 300SD
Fritzi '84 BMW
'92 Subaru
'96 Impala SS
'71 Buick GS conv
'67 GTO conv
'63 Corvair conv
'57 Nomad

The way I see it, it is like the Dem vs Rep issues. Either side isn't good but at least, with both of them there, they keep each other in some sort of check and balance.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Just to clarify, you're not a US citizen what you want with the rights of Americans is as meaningful as a popcorn fart at this point.

Attacking him because he is not a citizen is bad form.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

It's not an attack, its a fact. The reason we have countries, states, precincts, townships, villages, cities ect is because the citizens vote for what direction they desire their community to go.

Now for you, mind your own business. If you want to talk about the 2nd amendment let us know what you know.

Its at least the third or fourth time you have used his lack of citizenship as an argument against his thoughts... sounds like an attack to me.

As far as I know there is no requirement of us citizenship to post opinions here.

I support the right to bear arms but don't feel a large urge to join in here on that subject.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I don't follow you on this. What does his lack of citizenship have to do with the validity of his arguments? If he has a legit point to make, even if it is based on experiences and laws in other countries, why wouldn't we listen to him?

BTW, this is a slightly different question, but do non-citizens have 2nd Amendment rights? I know that parts of the Bill of Rights apply to non-citizens. I don't know about the 2nd Amendment.

Just curious.