Earthen Dam Roulette - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #16 12-27-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

When I lived in Houston, they build Enron field on taxpayer money because the owner of the Astros threatened to leave town. I think it was like 250 million. Seems like if the city was really interested in helping the city, they might build something like, you know, schools.

For baseball you have around 80 home games a year to support a stadium, for the NFL 8. 8 days out of 365. Seems like the money could be better spent....

I think part of the problem is that like in your case, the threat of the Astros going out to somewhere else is similar to Janesville WI and GM. They have been sucking so long on the GM tit that they are not sure if they can make it if the factory moves. Sure, there is some loss of revenue but whether it is paid for by the stadium is up to debate. Obviously since I own a restaurant or a hotel in Houston, you bet I will be for it. OTOH, since I am Joe Citizen, I might not be so willing.

Don't they rent the stadium out for the remaining days for other things?

Emmerich · #17 12-27-2008, 12:24 PM

Not sure about that since Enron field is baseball only. Reliant Stadium by the old Astrodome is a complex where they have a lot of different events.

When Bud Adams (owner of the Oilers) threatened to leave Houston, they let him, because he was universally disliked. The Astros owner had more stroke so they kissed his ass to stay. They claim he had a stake in the deal for about 40 million. Trouble was they GAVE him the naming rights to sell, which he sold to Enron for 100 million. So before the first pitch was thrown, he made 60 million. Now Enron fell apart and they were on a 10 year plan, but that is a different story.

They also claim it is all recouped by extra taxes they charge on hotels and rent cars. They really stick it to travelers now.

The fundamental issue is that in the old days, all the stadiums were owned by the city and/or county. The team owners got tired of paying rent so they strong armed the cities into building them new stadiums, which they own all or part of, plus the lucrative concessions business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I think part of the problem is that like in your case, the threat of the Astros going out to somewhere else is similar to Janesville WI and GM. They have been sucking so long on the GM tit that they are not sure if they can make it if the factory moves. Sure, there is some loss of revenue but whether it is paid for by the stadium is up to debate. Obviously since I own a restaurant or a hotel in Houston, you bet I will be for it. OTOH, since I am Joe Citizen, I might not be so willing.

Don't they rent the stadium out for the remaining days for other things?

Botnst · #18 12-27-2008, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

The land grants were every other section of land 20 miles on each side of the main line of the railroad.

Kind of a chicken and egg situation, nobody would buy the land from the railroad until the railroad had a line in so you could get there in the first place. Also a lot of the land was not very desirable. The railroads floated a lot of the funding until critical mass was reached on infrastructure.

Folks were moving west en masse long before there was a railroad system. Before railroads were invented.

Botnst · #19 12-27-2008, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

You may call it something else but, I think of it as Corporate Welfare. Very, very popular on the right-hand side of the road.

Depends on the corporation. Freddie & Fannie (for example) were popular with the leftish. Bet an interesting list would be the boards of directors that Carter, Bush I, Clinton, and all of their former appointees have sat on.

Right now the biggest friend Big Auto has is ......... Democrats.

B

aklim · #20 12-27-2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Right now the biggest friend Big Auto has is ......... Democrats.

Better be seeing as how the unions own the Dems.

R Leo · #21 12-27-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

Stephen Ambrose's "Nothing Like It in the World" is a very readable account of the history of the trans-continental railway.

An OK book but too much sugar coating. For the rest of the story, read Dee Brown's "Hear that Lonesome Whistle Blow."

R Leo · #22 12-27-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Depends on the corporation. Freddie & Fannie (for example) were popular with the leftish. Bet an interesting list would be the boards of directors that Carter, Bush I, Clinton, and all of their former appointees have sat on.

Right now the biggest friend Big Auto has is ......... Democrats.

B

Red or blue, it is welfare for the uber powerful.

Chas H · #23 12-27-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R Leo

An OK book but too much sugar coating. For the rest of the story, read Dee Brown's "Hear that Lonesome Whistle Blow."

What was sugar coated?

R Leo · #24 12-27-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Folks were moving west en masse long before there was a railroad system. Before railroads were invented.

Just not at the scale of post-transcontinental RR migration.

cmac2012 · #25 12-27-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

That was what I was going to say. In some cases the right of way land was just the beginning, the government also gave them additional land to sell to help pay for the cost of building the railroads.

Didn't you ever wonder how they managed to shoot those railroads across the whole country in one fell swoop?

That was then, railroads were highly sought, some incentive was deemed appropriate.

Now, I gather that trucking companies have an advantage over railroads as trucking companies have their roadway construction and maintenance subsidized.

cmac2012 · #26 12-27-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

Still have not thought of that word.

Some company builds a sports stadium and the residents
have to pay for the roads, water, sewer, electric, etc upgrades
it takes to facilitate the new stadium.

Not a single word but a current phrase in use sorta covers it:

privatizing gain while socializing risk

Botnst · #27 12-27-2008, 07:57 PM

What was the national interest in hurrying-up western migration? The net result was almost total annihilation of the buffalo and the red Indians who depended on them for food and many products necessary to sustain their lives. It also displaced sedentary Indian populations from their traditional land. Etc. This was government sanctioned, cultural destruction and genocide. Oh yeah, great thing.

Chas H · #28 12-27-2008, 08:09 PM

The Civil War was the impetus for a transcontinental railroad. Lincoln wanted a quicker way to get California gold back East.

Botnst · #29 12-27-2008, 08:32 PM

I am shocked, shocked, that Saint Abraham did something that wasn't for a high-minded purpose.

cmac2012 · #30 12-27-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

What was the national interest in hurrying-up western migration? The net result was almost total annihilation of the buffalo and the red Indians who depended on them for food and many products necessary to sustain their lives. It also displaced sedentary Indian populations from their traditional land. Etc. This was government sanctioned, cultural destruction and genocide. Oh yeah, great thing.

For that matter, what is the national interest in growing our economy as fast as possible at all times? The Natives were eventually persuaded that there was no stopping the pell-mell rush of the Wasichu.

Profit is king in America. Don't bother me with discussion of appropriateness or hidden costs. I want wealth, dammit!