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  #31  
Old 12-27-2008, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
I am shocked, shocked, that Saint Abraham did something that wasn't for a high-minded purpose.
Some thought it was quite "high minded", perhaps even patriotic.
And it was a great ruse to give away public land to corporations.

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  #32  
Old 12-27-2008, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chas H View Post
Some thought it was quite "high minded", perhaps even patriotic.
And it was a great ruse to give away public land to corporations.
Yep.

Lincoln opened the treasury to Vanderbilts and Cabots, and Carnegies and a few others -- for the "public good" -- and enriched them beyond belief. Every "public servant" elected to national office since then has raided the treasury (taxpayer) to enrich some company or group. In the "national interest." Like the bail-out of investment banks and auto mfrs. No different. Buncha freaking Republicrat socialists.

B
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  #33  
Old 12-27-2008, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by botnst View Post
yep.
... Buncha freaking republicrat socialists.

B
Ha!
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  #34  
Old 12-28-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Yep.

Lincoln opened the treasury to Vanderbilts and Cabots, and Carnegies and a few others -- for the "public good" -- and enriched them beyond belief. Every "public servant" elected to national office since then has raided the treasury (taxpayer) to enrich some company or group. In the "national interest." Like the bail-out of investment banks and auto mfrs. No different. Buncha freaking Republicrat socialists.

B
I am with you on that one.
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  #35  
Old 12-28-2008, 08:35 AM
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Found it

Its not one word but two.

Externalizing Costs

Here is a good explination.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9153550196656656736&ei=5XtXSafcOY-M-wH949y8Cg&q=the+story+of+stuff&hl=en

The explanation starts at about 8:00 min into the video.
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  #36  
Old 12-28-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
We started distilling our own drinking water about a year or so ago.

Costs us about $0.50 per gallon.

.......

What is that term used in capitolism where you get someone else to pay for your profits.

Kinda like when we switched from trains to cars.
Railroads had to build their own tracks for trains.
But automobile manufacturers dont have to build roads.

.........

What a wonderfull mess we are leaving our grandchildren to clean up.

........

Drill, baby, drill !!!
Thats because they are the only ones that get to use it. Try putting your own locomotive on the tracks and see what happens. Meathead! Also locomotive manufacturers dont pay for the tracks they run on either just like the auto industry.
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  #37  
Old 12-28-2008, 11:46 AM
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The Civil War?

(If I may paraphase Botnst...)

"It was Lincoln's fault!"
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  #38  
Old 12-28-2008, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichC View Post
Found it

Its not one word but two.

Externalizing Costs

Here is a good explination.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9153550196656656736&ei=5XtXSafcOY-M-wH949y8Cg&q=the+story+of+stuff&hl=en

The explanation starts at about 8:00 min into the video.
Yes, I agree that cities end up paying for a lot of infrastructure for sports' venues for the dubious "privilege" of allowing billionaires to play a kid's game shows some poor priorities.
However, it is the current reality.

For home-builders, at least in MD, the infrastructure costs are borne by the future homeowners. Developers are required to improve public roads that front their property. The cost is simply added to the cost of developing the lots, and is paid by the purchasers.
There would probably be more bang for the buck, if, instead of bailing out big companies, the government could subsidize the infrastructure and maybe help the housing industry.
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  #39  
Old 12-28-2008, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
There would probably be more bang for the buck, if, instead of bailing out big companies, the government could subsidize the infrastructure and maybe help the housing industry.
I agree there would be more bang for the buck if the govt got involved. Question is which govt? The ones we have that cannot balance their checkbook? The ones that make each and every bill a hostage situation? The ones that gave us Fannie and Freddie and SSI? Why should we trust them with more work when they can't even do what they are supposed to do? Maybe they should prove to us that they can do their current job FIRST before we give them any more responsibility and money.
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  #40  
Old 12-28-2008, 08:02 PM
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I know how much money the city of Fort Worth spent to get the NASCAR track north of town.

ZERO.

The owner of the track paid for everything. All he wanted from the city was to become a part of it so he could get police and fire protection from them. He also pays what the city demands for these services.

This was such a shock to the city that they did a big investigation into the track and turned him down. He asked the city if they would rather have the Super Bowl instead, which would bring in about 80,000 people once every twenty years.

They said yes to this.

So he told them the Super Bowl was not coming, but his track would bring in 120,000 people eight times a year. They then said yes to the track.

A race day there sells out hotels for about 80 miles in every direction and the city of Fort Worth has still never paid a dime to the track.

Perhaps there is a lesson here for other cities on how to deal with sports team owners?

Pooka

Last edited by Pooka; 12-28-2008 at 08:20 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #41  
Old 12-28-2008, 08:16 PM
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earthen dams

If you want to see how a REAL earthen dam flood looks then Google 'Johnstown Flood".

It will make you want to move if you live downstream from one of these.

Pooka
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  #42  
Old 12-28-2008, 09:24 PM
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You mean move off of the floodplain?
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  #43  
Old 12-28-2008, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
I know how much money the city of Fort Worth spent to get the NASCAR track north of town.

ZERO.

The owner of the track paid for everything. All he wanted from the city was to become a part of it so he could get police and fire protection from them. He also pays what the city demands for these services.

This was such a shock to the city that they did a big investigation into the track and turned him down. He asked the city if they would rather have the Super Bowl instead, which would bring in about 80,000 people once every twenty years.

They said yes to this.

So he told them the Super Bowl was not coming, but his track would bring in 120,000 people eight times a year. They then said yes to the track.

A race day there sells out hotels for about 80 miles in every direction and the city of Fort Worth has still never paid a dime to the track.

Perhaps there is a lesson here for other cities on how to deal with sports team owners?

Pooka
All this is facinating. Problem is the cities are too selfish to stand united. IF they would, they could save themselves a bunch of money. Problem is that if your city won't do it, another one will. So, what leverage will you have? Oh, you don't want to build my stadium here? No problem. Fawk you. The other city will. Madison, WI didn't want to give Holiday Inn a break when they wanted to build their hotel. Middleton did so Holiday Inn builds a hotel 10 feet into Middleton and has all the benefits of Madison without the higher taxes.
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  #44  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
All this is facinating. Problem is the cities are too selfish to stand united. IF they would, they could save themselves a bunch of money. Problem is that if your city won't do it, another one will. So, what leverage will you have? Oh, you don't want to build my stadium here? No problem. Fawk you. The other city will. Madison, WI didn't want to give Holiday Inn a break when they wanted to build their hotel. Middleton did so Holiday Inn builds a hotel 10 feet into Middleton and has all the benefits of Madison without the higher taxes.
Politicians in general refuse to see the consequences of their actions. Having never been involved in running a business, their actions are not tempered by knowledge.

A few years ago, the legislators of Maryland voted an increase in the taxes to be paid by health insurance companies. The legislators clucked that the businesses involved would not pass the increases on to their customers, but would simply absorb the increased costs. HA HA! They were shocked! shocked! to hear complaints from their constitutents that their health insurance premiums were going up.
Previous to this, the same body of wise persons increased the fees on the banking industry. The result was to drive all large commercial banks to Delaware where they pay no fees. Again, the elected representatives were baffled by this "illogical" reaction.
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2008, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
All this is facinating. Problem is the cities are too selfish to stand united. IF they would, they could save themselves a bunch of money. Problem is that if your city won't do it, another one will. So, what leverage will you have? Oh, you don't want to build my stadium here? No problem. Fawk you. The other city will. Madison, WI didn't want to give Holiday Inn a break when they wanted to build their hotel. Middleton did so Holiday Inn builds a hotel 10 feet into Middleton and has all the benefits of Madison without the higher taxes.
As it should be. Get cities out of private enterprise. If anybody in the city wants one of those team thingies let him buy one and build some bleachers out of his own pocket. Or sell stock, like legitimate companies do when they want to raise cash for expansion of capital assets.

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