The Gun Thread

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by Botnst

I'm with Mrs LUV. I've wanted one of those since forever."Saving Private Ryan" rekindled it. I fired the M-1 Carbine when I was a teenager but didn't much care for it. It was owned by a guy who used one during WWII. A former Seabee. Said it was good for shooting Japanese soldiers at night. His language was more colorful.

Sounds like my grandfathers M1.

I still think the M1 carbine is one of the best shooting rifles you can have. I'd like to buy another that I can actualy use.

I'd love a BAR, and an MG34. I want to be able to through some lead with authority.

[LUVMBDiesels]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

I'm quite a fan of the M1 Carbine, back years ago I worked on the road a lot, and the variations in local gun laws made carrying a pistol problematic, so I started carrying a paratroop M1 model with the folding stock and shorter barrel, legal anywhere. I had a long tool box that it fit into quite nicely, and it was nicely concealed in it when going in an out of hotel rooms, and if I was working in a sketchy part of town, I would just have my toolbox nearby and looked perfectly normal. It is a highly underrated weapon, IMO. There still are a lot of pamphlets and such around the local gun shows on converting one to full auto, I have one somewhere around the house in case the Anti-Christ One World Government Headquartered in Moscow arrives, I check Glenn Beck daily for updates.

That version of the M1 carbine is the same one that my friend had. It was made by IBM and was converted to select fire using that kit... What a hoot to shoot! Pretty accurate and easy to handle. Putting one in a tool box is a great idea! I need to get me one of them but they have also gone way up in price. The next local gun show is in May so I will have to keep my eyes peeled for one there.

[cmbdiesel]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Not true.

Nice rebuttal. Think that up all by yourself?

Guess we know which side of United States v. Emerson you're on.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Nice rebuttal. Think that up all by yourself?...

No. I read history.

[mattmacklind]

I'm a bit of a gun fan. I'm actually a gun-toting liberal. I won't get into the debates about gun control, though.

I enjoy hunting sometimes, but I don't have the time these days and it can be a big time commitment. I mostly just enjoy shooting. I've been looking for a CETME lately, with wood furniture, but since the new admin came in the prices on everything have spiked so I'm going to wait a while. They aren't as well made as a G3, but no way am I spending that kind of coin on a gun I may shoot once a year.

[JollyRoger]

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

That version of the M1 carbine is the same one that my friend had. It was made by IBM and was converted to select fire using that kit... What a hoot to shoot! Pretty accurate and easy to handle. Putting one in a tool box is a great idea! I need to get me one of them but they have also gone way up in price. The next local gun show is in May so I will have to keep my eyes peeled for one there.

I paid about $700 for mine back in the 90's, sold it for $1400 about a year ago, could not resist that price, and yes, it was manufactured by IBM. You can build a clone pretty cheap, they sell the stocks over the internet made in Italy, then just take any M1 to a gun smith and have him shorten the barrel to the legal limit. You can pick up good carbines for about $500 at the gun shows here in TX.

[JollyRoger]

Originally Posted by mattmacklind

I'm a bit of a gun fan. I'm actually a gun-toting liberal. I won't get into the debates about gun control, though.

I enjoy hunting sometimes, but I don't have the time these days and it can be a big time commitment. I mostly just enjoy shooting. I've been looking for a CETME lately, with wood furniture, but since the new admin came in the prices on everything have spiked so I'm going to wait a while. They aren't as well made as a G3, but no way am I spending that kind of coin on a gun I may shoot once a year.

I too, am a "gun toting liberal". I can convert any liberal to pro-gun simply by getting them to listen to Michael Savage for an hour or two. After the third or forth rant about "take them to the camps" and "liberalism should be a felony", "red doper diaper babies" etc, they all seem to have a different view of the 2nd Amendment afterwards. Mark Levin seems to have the same effect.

[WVOtoGO]

Me too.

However, I prefer to just use and talk common sense.
If that doesn’t get them to at least open up a bit. Then I refuse to waste anymore time on the subject.

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by Botnst

No. I read history.

You should try the Cliffnotes.

[strelnik]

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

OK, thanks for the Constitutional primer course.

Can't fight a tank with a rifle.

Sure you can. And you can win. There is training for it.

The average citizen has been turned by consumerism into an unimaginative citizen. he/she believes you have to go to the store and buy an anti-tank gun, maybe at guns R us.

Anyone who studies a tank for a little while and has half a brain can defeat one.

Tank tactics are taught to make the weaknesses either less obvious or less available.

And since so few people are really trained in this stuff, the average person can't even conceive that he/she can defeat it.

Armies bank on the psychology just described to intimidate and keep civilian/conquered populations in line.

[cmbdiesel]

Well, OK... how 'bout your chances are pretty slim if you and your posse (even with your ar-15's with banana clips and pistol grips) are going up against army regulars equipped with tanks, bradley fighting vehicles, air support, etc. etc. We have a pretty well trained and equipped army, that would make mincemeat out of the general populace (regardless of their personal weapons) if push came to shove.

I have a translation of the original field manual issued with my russian SKS. It goes into detail about engaging aircraft. What do you think, could you realistically expect to take down a warplane with a 7.62x39mm round?

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by strelnik

Sure you can. And you can win. There is training for it.

The average citizen has been turned by consumerism into an unimaginative citizen. he/she believes you have to go to the store and buy an anti-tank gun, maybe at guns R us.

Anyone who studies a tank for a little while and has half a brain can defeat one.

Tank tactics are taught to make the weaknesses either less obvious or less available.

And since so few people are really trained in this stuff, the average person can't even conceive that he/she can defeat it.

Armies bank on the psychology just described to intimidate and keep civilian/conquered populations in line.

The Russians and partisans did it all the time in WW2, so did the Germans. The Germans taught the British not to advance there tanks alone without infantry support.

The Germans actualy knocked out far more tanks with anti tank guns than tanks. They would hitch the 88's to trucks and run them around the battlefield. They didn't have tanks and/or didn't want to waste them.

Without infantry support all you need to do is pop a track off, which doesn't take much of a bang. The tank is still operational but its stationary. Than you can either stick a bigger bomb on it, blow open that hatch, or simply leave them.

All I have to say is study the Russian front in early WW2. You would be amazed at how much those Russians with nothing could do. In one instance in late 1942 they formed a typical box which is when they let themselves get overrun and dig into a fortified position. It took most of the 11th Panzer to dislodge them, and it took three attacks. 1k mostly starved poorly trained peasent soliders, with just rifles and some explosives held up a German Panzer division with intense air support.

The Russians are experts at this stuff.

[Fulcrum525]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The Russians are experts at this stuff.

Krasnogvardeysk

On August 14, 1941, the vanguard of the German 8th Panzer Division approached Krasnogvardeysk (Gatchina) near Leningrad (St Petersburg), and the only Soviet force available at the time to attempt to stop the German advance consisted of five well-hidden KV-1 tanks, dug in within a grove at the edge of a swamp. KV-1 tank no. 864 was commanded by the leader of this small force, Lieutenant Zinoviy Kolobanov.



German forces attacked Krasnogvardeysk from three directions. Near Noviy Uchkhoz settlement the geography favoured the Soviet defenders as the only road in the region passed the swamp, and the defenders commanded this choke point from their hidden position. Lieutenant Kolobanov had carefully studied the situation and readied his detachment the day before. Each KV-1 tank carried twice the normal amount of ammunition, two-thirds being armour-piercing rounds. Kolobanov ordered his other commanders to hold their fire and await orders. He did not want to reveal the total force, so only one exposed tank at a time would engage the enemy.
On August 14, the German 8th Panzer Division's vanguard ventured directly into the well-prepared Soviet ambush, with Kolobanov's tank knocking out the lead German tank with its first shot. The Germans falsely assumed that their lead tank had hit an anti-tank mine, and failed to realize that they had been ambushed. The German column stopped, giving Kolobanov the opportunity to destroy the second tank. Only then did the Germans realize they were under attack, but they failed to find the source of the shots. While the German tanks were firing blindly, Kolobanov knocked out the trailing German tank, thus boxing in the entire column.
Although the Germans correctly guessed the direction of fire, they could only spot Lieutenant Kolobanov's tank, and now attempted to engage an unseen enemy. German tanks moving off the road bogged down in the surrounding soft ground, becoming easy targets. 22 German tanks and 2 towed artillery pieces fell victim to Kolobanov's No. 864 before it ran out of ammunition. Kolobanov ordered in another KV-1, and 21 more German tanks were destroyed before the half-hour battle ended. A total of 43 German tanks were destroyed by just five Soviet KV-1s (two more remained in reserve).
After the battle, the crew of No. 864 counted a total of 135 hits on their tank, none of which had penetrated the KV-1's armour. Lieutenant Kolobanov was awarded the Order of Lenin, while his driver Usov was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Later on, former Captain Zinoviy Kolobanov was again decorated by Soviet authorities, despite having been been convicted and downgraded after the Winter War for "fraternizing with the enemy." After the end of World War II, Lieutenant Kolobanov served in the Soviet occupation zone in Eastern Germany, where he was convicted again when a subordinate escaped to the British occupation zone, and was transferred to the reserves.
The battle for Krasnogvardeysk was covered up by Soviet propaganda. A monument dedicated to this battle was installed in the village of Noviy Uchkhoz in 1980, at the place where Kolobanov's KV-1 was dug in, due solely to the demands of the villagers. Unfortunately it was impossible to find a KV-1 tank, so an IS-2 heavy tank was installed there instead.[1]
The Soviet victory was the result of a well-planned ambush in advantageous ground and of technical superiority. Most of the German tanks in this battle were Panzer IIs, armed with 20 mm guns, and a few Panzer IIIs armed with 37 mm KwK 36 L/46.5 guns. The German tank guns had neither the range nor the power of the 76 mm main gun of a KV-1, and the narrower track width of the German tanks caused them to become trapped in the swampy ground.

[WVOtoGO]

I must be missing something here with this “Joe Citizen" vs. M1A1 tank duel.

When I picture this scenario. All I see is some big egotistical dude, on his knees whimpering in front of a smoldering pile of what once was his house, wondering where he’s now going to do his laundry because he’s crapped his pants.

[LaRondo]

Originally Posted by PaulC

That's because the Desert Eagle is the perfect concealed-carry firearm.

I got a Desert Eagle right here in my pants ...