Real difference between classic conservatives and liberals. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #1 04-17-2009, 07:07 AM

I heard someone use this to distinguish between the classic versions of the 2 major parties. With so much redefinition going on, who knows if it still applies. It does pretty mush align with my feelings, but I am not a majority.

Conservatives/Classic Republicans believe that money belongs to the individual citizen and some is given to the government for its public use.

Liberals/Demorats/Progressives believe that all money belongs to the government and some is given to the citizens for their private use.

Probably not strictly true, but not bad.

#2 04-17-2009, 07:24 AM

I don't liberals belive all money should go to government.

POS · #3 04-17-2009, 07:55 AM

I always saw conservatives as long-term thinkers and liberals as short-term thinkers:

1) Tax the rich, share with the poor is great for now, but eventually the rich will get tired of paying and do something else. Then everyone ends up poorer.

2) Universal health care is great for the short-term; everyone gets coverage, but eventually the quality of care will drop and the price will be too much for the government to afford. We all end up with worse coverage than we do now.

3) Giving the poor food stamps and a govt paycheck helps them today, but it removes the incentive for them to get a better job and help themselves later on. You don't help people by giving them things, you make them dependent on you when you do.

#4 04-17-2009, 08:06 AM

I don't agree with the short sighted arguement. I think it has more to do with some people can't afford the current health care so what are they supposed to do? Some people (the rich) are not paying the same percentage of taxes as most do. That just doesn't seem right to me. And I am all in favor of helping people who need help (i.e. food stamps whatever) for a short term. I think everyone needs help once in a while.

JollyRoger · #5 04-17-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

I always saw conservatives as long-term thinkers and liberals as short-term thinkers:

1) Tax the rich, share with the poor is great for now, but eventually the rich will get tired of paying and do something else. Then everyone ends up poorer.

2) Universal health care is great for the short-term; everyone gets coverage, but eventually the quality of care will drop and the price will be too much for the government to afford. We all end up with worse coverage than we do now.

3) Giving the poor food stamps and a govt paycheck helps them today, but it removes the incentive for them to get a better job and help themselves later on. You don't help people by giving them things, you make them dependent on you when you do.

If you guys are such great long term thinkers, why are we still dependent on foreign oil? Why do we have nothing to replace our evaporated manufacturing base? Why did you think housing prices would rise forever? Why are you denying that in 30 years, the planet will be turned into a hot house? Long term thinker? No, I'd say "blind". And all your points are easily refuted simply by looking at the governments of Europe, where social democracy seems to be doing fine after about five decades of it.

jplinville · #6 04-17-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

If you guys are such great long term thinkers, why are we still dependent on foreign oil? Why do we have nothing to replace our evaporated manufacturing base? Why did you think housing prices would rise forever? Why are you denying that in 30 years, the planet will be turned into a hot house? Long term thinker? No, I'd say "blind". And all your points are easily refuted simply by looking at the governments of Europe, where social democracy seems to be doing fine after about five decades of it.

Paranoia runs amok...

JollyRoger · #7 04-17-2009, 10:19 AM

huh? (scratches head)

tankdriver · #8 04-17-2009, 10:23 AM

#9 04-17-2009, 10:23 AM

I will say only this on global warming while no one knows the full extent of how bad things might get. I belive that no harm can come of being overly cautious. I do belive that not taking it seriously is a very very bad idea.

Mistress · #10 04-17-2009, 04:12 PM

So where does that leave people who are in the middle? Somedays i think I should have all my money and some days I think the government should have it?

POS · #11 04-17-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

If you guys are such great long term thinkers, why are we still dependent on foreign oil? Why do we have nothing to replace our evaporated manufacturing base? Why did you think housing prices would rise forever? Why are you denying that in 30 years, the planet will be turned into a hot house? Long term thinker? No, I'd say "blind". And all your points are easily refuted simply by looking at the governments of Europe, where social democracy seems to be doing fine after about five decades of it.

Then why do you live here? Go there where it's "better".

JonL · #12 04-17-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

Then why do you live here? Go there where it's "better".

Oh, c'mon. It's home to all of us. We all want our home to be better. Unfortunately we have a variety of opinions as to how it should be better. Hence the rise of democracy as a way to come to some kind of consensus. It's patriotic to protest and to be an activist for change.

Brian Carlton · #13 04-17-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

Oh, c'mon. It's home to all of us. We all want our home to be better. Unfortunately we have a variety of opinions as to how it should be better. Hence the rise of democracy as a way to come to some kind of consensus. It's patriotic to protest and to be an activist for change.

You'll find that the one line retort is frequently used around here when the poster's "got nuthin'". They receive the proper response: an ignore.

jplinville · #14 04-17-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

Oh, c'mon. It's home to all of us. We all want our home to be better. Unfortunately we have a variety of opinions as to how it should be better. Hence the rise of democracy as a way to come to some kind of consensus. It's patriotic to protest and to be an activist for change.

We are not a democracy, we are a republic. Why can't liberals understand this?

t walgamuth · #15 04-18-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

I always saw conservatives as long-term thinkers and liberals as short-term thinkers:

1) Tax the rich, share with the poor is great for now, but eventually the rich will get tired of paying and do something else. Then everyone ends up poorer.

2) Universal health care is great for the short-term; everyone gets coverage, but eventually the quality of care will drop and the price will be too much for the government to afford. We all end up with worse coverage than we do now.

3) Giving the poor food stamps and a govt paycheck helps them today, but it removes the incentive for them to get a better job and help themselves later on. You don't help people by giving them things, you make them dependent on you when you do.

What is the something else the rich would do?