Wanted to see what everyones opinion was on updating the power grid? I personally think it is very much needed. Cost an arm and a leg but still needed. Opinions? And plz plz plz lets try to be mature here....no name calling or loony lefties or crazy right wingers. If you don't like it please state why.

The problem with the grid is that it is privately owned. So if we pay to upgrade it with tax money, that is free money for the utility companies. What's this about voting yourself money from the treasury again?

If the grid were publicly owned, would it be maintained better than the streets?

What is your basis for updating it?

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

Most of the grid itself is very old. Obviously some updates have been had but for the most part the system has remained unchanged. It is inefficeint at best. Examples the meter boxes are one way only they only show customer usage but don't alert the company about power outages. The wires themselves I am sure could be better designed. The relay stations seem to be very prone to one goes and then another goes. There has to be something done about that. I realize they are privately owned but the problem with that is they are not going to spend anymore money then they have to.

So, what do you propose as the fix for this?

I personally feel that too much public monies have been spent to "repair" what has been working up to this point.

Perhaps certain municipalities could cause the power companies to go underground with their wiring, which would keep them safe from severe storms and such, but it would have to come from the local level, not the Federal level.

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

I think it's a great idea in theory. I've not seen any indication as to how it can be done in practice. As has been pointed out. The national grid is privately owned and the companies dont have the money to upgrade the way that's been proposed. Don't they have a limit on the rates they can charge? So even if they wanted to they might be unable to finance it.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

But what is an upgrade could not only help make the grid more reliable (i.e. no more rolling blackouts ect.) and help keep it insulated from attacks of varying kinds. (i.e. blow one transformer and take out a part of a city). And if the devices we use keep on getting more and more advanced shouldn't the source of their power at least get some upgrade? I mean really there has to be a better way to transmit power (obviously not talking about trying to use superconductors or anything) but something. And sometimes privately owned means we won't upgrade until its on fire and burning down around us. And the fix might involve new wires or a redisign of substations maybe incorporation of some remote monitoring of some kind. I don't really know I'm not an electrical engineer.

No problem.

The precedent has been established.

First, tell the people repeatedly that there is a crisis.

Then just increase the debt a few trillion and give the money to the private companies.

Unless it is failing, age is not a reason for an upgrade. Overhead transmission lines don't really wear out. Insulators need to be replaced, but not often.


what part of the grid do you consider to be so inefficient? Generation? Transmission? Distribution? There's a lot of 'stuff' there that's lumped into this thing we call the Grid.

This has little to do with efficiency, and besides, if there is no power at the meter box, how is it supposed to send an alert???

Umm, wire is wire, how do you design that better??

Updates can go a long way to prevent these cascading overloads. The trick is to shut off the circuits fast enough that the remaining load is within the generating capacity still online, which is a good trick since the load changes 60 times per second. These failures can cascade FAST!

Many of them are publicly owned, and you can buy stock in CON-ED, etc. They have a duty to provide electrical energy at a high reliability and at affordable rates. That means they won't invest a lot in new, unproven technology, and they won't spend $1 to avoid only $0.01 in problems.

My power hasn't gone out for more than a few seconds in about four years. My electric bill ranges from $20 in the summer to a high of $115 in the winter (electric heat sucks). The grid seems to be working fine in current form from my perspective.

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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.

I was hit by the remnants of Hurricane Ike as he strolled up to visit Ohio...the power was out for 10 days at my houe, and longer in other areas.

The local power company has been charging $20 per month for "Line Maintenance" for years, yet discontinued the act of trimming trees around the lines 17 years prior to Ike's visit. There was over a million people without power for days.

My point is this...most power companies already charge for "line Maintenance" yet don't perform the service that is paid for on a monthly basis. If they were to just maintain the lines, as promised, perhaps the "grid" would do what it's supposed to do.

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

But maybe this is the reason for some government loans and such that way something has to get done lest they lose their government money.

I think that a "Smart Grid" is what the OP was reaching for. Thats the only real upgrade that an electrical grid has available, other than piecemeal added transmission lines (or upgrades so existing lines can carry more...)

My personal bias up front - I used to work for an electric company before I was deployed to Iraq (I'm posting from an MWR computer =) I hope to get a job at that company when I get back (I was on contract in the engineering department...)

A smart grid is one where all the transformers, sub stations, and distribution points down to the meter on a building are all network-communicating devices. Its like having a little network card in your electric meter (with a little backup battery in case power is lost), that emails the company your electric usage every month - the technology for this already exists (aka internet over power lines) and is what most pundits mean when they talk about upgrading the electrical grid. Presumably, the electric meters themselves would not be accessible from the internet (see the section on hacking below =) ...but they could be built as internet devices.

"benefits" - Ease of monitoring individual customers, disconnecting and reconnecting service (you could be shut off or turned on by the call center - it wouldnt take a visit from a guy with a van). Ease of monitoring where service is and isnt (if the power co saw that an entire block had no power, it could send a crew there before someone even calls.
example2 - if power is restored to a block, and then is lost again (another tree goes down, this happened to me a few times during the aforementioned Ohio hurricane) the power company could monitor this in almost real time and find problems more quickly from the office - as opposed to having crews of linemen drive down the street looking for the blown transformer.
having a smart meter also allows the company to bill you more or less based on the time of day you use power. The smart meter would have a real-time clock in it, and be able to compute/display the power used at different times of day. This is why people that like electric cars like smart grids - you put your car on a timer to charge at night, when the power co. charges less. - they cant do that (right now) with conventional electric meters. I think that some large businesses/buildings have these though.

drawbacks- the electric grid is now a hackable network, and someone with access can turn off power to houses/businesses as they wish. As the computer security saying goes - if you dont have physical control of a computer - its not yours anymore. There'd be teething problems and administrative errors ("sorry, we meant to turn off your neighbors power...")
The other drawback would be expense. I dont know how much a conventional electric meter is but I'd put the new smart meter at least 2x the cost of a conventional one. Purely a guess.
the money required to touch every building/substation would be a lot...this system would have to be phased in over time. Sorry I can't offer any cost numbers.
There is probably a privacy argument there also - how much power you use at what time...but I can't find a reason why someone's power consumption records would be subpoena'd...(I'm sure some of the black helicopter lovers on here could =)...but they could be.

Personally, I'm not in favor of a smart grid - this country is just too big and I'm too afraid of hackers/errors. If the made the system such that you had to visit the physical meter to turn off service - ok - I'll take that hit and save by doing my laundry at night.

Sorry for the long post, if you google smart grid, I'm sure that you'll find much more than what I have to say. Let the debate continue.

-SSGt John

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2009 Kia Sedona
2009 Honda Odyssey EX-L
12006 Jetta Pumpe Duse
(insert Mercedes here)

Husband, Father, sometimes friend =)

You make it possible. Thank you for your service.

Interesting. I had heard the term smart grid but didn't know what it meant. It sounds like something that probably will be phased in gradually over time.

I've been reading a book called Reefer Madness that told about a person who used a generator to power his indoor pot growing operation specifically so that his power consumption couldn't arouse suspicion.

Thanks for being in Iraq. I've been there twice myself.

__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 401,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 26,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
99 Mazda Miata 183,xxx miles.