Finished one good book, starting another.

[Hatterasguy]

Just finished Panzer Battles by Major General F.W. von Mellenthin. I have to say it was very interesting. He was a General Staff officer, but a middle manager during the war. So his point of view while more macro than say Hans Von Luck's who was a field commander, is not so macro like Guderian's that a lot of the interesting details are lost.

Another interesting thing is he relates to advancements after the war in both the political situation in Europe and tanks. He talked breifly about how tactics could change since modern tanks can fire on the move. He learned a lot from Rommel and made some good points, mostly about how to fight the Russians. For example insted of smashing into them head on, hit them hard from the sides. Pretty much don't fight when you can maneuver your enemy out of his position.

The Germans were extremely good at what they did. The Russians always outnumberd them, but they were able to operate and attack efficiently as long as they were only outnumbered about 5:1, and had good air support. Although far more unfavorable numbers were commen. As Mellenthin said he is doubtful that any other Western army could do much better against mass attacks.

He also brough up some interesting tactical points:
1. Never let a Russian bridge head last, attack with anything you have as soon as one forms. They will pour a never ending amount of reinforcements into it and within a few days no army on earth can dislodge them. One time his Panzer Corp, the 48th, almost got annihilated because they tride to encircle and cut off such a bridge head with a few very experianced but weak panzer divisons. They were able to, but as he said, "the ferocity of there counter attack took our breath away." AT that point they realized they had gotten themselves into some trouble. They had managed to encircle two Russian army groups and it took them about 12 hours for the Russians to figure out how weak the German forces around them were. When they did all hell broke lose. They 48th just managed to get away.

2. Never fight with a fixed defense, always keep it mobil. Hitler loved fixed lines but they were useless. Mellenthin prefered to use screens and mine fields as the front line, with the main forces out of artillery range further back, and the armour reserve concentrated even further back to fix problems. They used their artillery to break up Russian concentration points. He said many times in the book to keep your armour and artillery close so they can concentrate on one point. Using armour to hold positions is a waste.

Interesting book, I would recomend it. He isn't the story teller that Luck is, but its still a good read.



I could be wrong but I think thats Mellenthin, Model, and Manstein.

[E150GT]

how many of these types if books have you read?

[Hatterasguy]

Quite a few now. I want to read Rommels next, that way I might be better able to understand his actions in Africa.

Now I'm working on Carl von Clausewitz book, "On War".

That is a fascinating read. I'm starting to see where thinkers like Guderian, Charles de Gaulle, and some British generals developed their ideas.

[Skippy]

I've read Clausewitz. Not bad at all.

I'm currently reading Eric Schlosser's Reefer Madness. Enlightening to say the least. After I finish it, I think I'll finally get started on the Marine Corps reading list.

[jplinville]

I just finished Hop On Pop, and will be starting Fox in Socks next week. Fascinating work...

[dannym]

I just finished a biography of Thomas Jefferson. Very interesting.

If you want to read a great book of Americas involvement in North Africa during WW1 you should read "An Army at Dawn" by Rick Atkinson.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

.
I could be wrong but I think thats Mellenthin, Model, and Manstein.

I don't think von Manstein wore the Afrika cuff title.

Have you read Campaign in Russia by Leon Degrelle?

[Fulcrum525]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

The Germans were extremely good at what they did. The Russians always outnumberd them, but they were able to operate and attack efficiently as long as they were only outnumbered about 5:1, and had good air support. Although far more unfavorable numbers were commen. As Mellenthin said he is doubtful that any other Western army could do much better against mass attacks.

2. Never fight with a fixed defense, always keep it mobil. Hitler loved fixed lines but they were useless. Mellenthin prefered to use screens and mine fields as the front line, with the main forces out of artillery range further back, and the armour reserve concentrated even further back to fix problems. They used their artillery to break up Russian concentration points. He said many times in the book to keep your armour and artillery close so they can concentrate on one point. Using armour to hold positions is a waste.

You should really play AOE3 because they did a good job of representing the same thing. When your playing against a Russian you'll have 15 men compared to his 50 strelets.... You have to be clever and use hit and run tactics or hit them from different sides with Cavalry. Head on is suicide..

[toomany MBZ]

You may want to check out "Knight's Cross".

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Now I'm working on Carl von Clausewitz book, "On War".

Ironically, I've just started that myself.

- Peter.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by toomany MBZ

You may want to check out "Knight's Cross".

I probably will next.

I'm roughly 1/3 of the way through volume 1 (of 4) on Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples.

I read his complete WWII memoirs as well as William Manchester's The Last Lion - Alone last year. The Last Lion - Alone has to be the most fascinating book on a short period in a person's life that I have ever read.

Highly recommend reading Churchill's The Gathering Storm (volume 1 of WWII memoirs) and then moving to The Last Lion - Alone.

[Hatterasguy]

I read Churchills WW2 memoirs last year, and will probably read them again this year. Fantastic read.

[strelnik]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Quite a few now. I want to read Rommel's next, that way I might be better able to understand his actions in Africa.

Now I'm working on Carl von Clausewitz book, "On War".

That is a fascinating read. I'm starting to see where thinkers like Guderian, Charles de Gaulle, and some British generals developed their ideas.

Did you read " The Tank in Battle" I think the title is?

Clausewitz's work may seem trite but you have to recognize that when it was written, the dominant thinking about strategy was Napoleonic. He even has this idea about using balloons and people rappelling from them, kind of as a fantasy idea. That's in the version I read, I have been told it's been edited and "sanitized" to make it more "understandable" for modern readers I hate when they do that.

The real value of seminal books is reading the original.

We get less value from books when we just read the Cliff's Notes...

[Hatterasguy]

When I get further into it I'll let you know. So far its pretty good.

It even had a note on the inside cover:
"This book is a product of its time and does not reflect the same values as it would if it were written today. Parents might wish to discuss with their children how views on race have changed before allowing them to read this classic work."

Firstly if a kid is reading this book I'm impressed!

Secondly Mellenthin called the Russians uneducated, sub human, dumb masses that should be machine gunned. There was no warning on the front of his book!