Sigh! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Mike D · #16 06-05-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

The question that no one wants to talk about is how can all the European countries have very strict gun control laws and still have a smaller crime rate that the US?

Oh I suppose that's true. Of course when it comes to wholesale slaughter of neighboring countries I do believe the Euros do have the numerical edge.

Yeah, yeah, I know we did it to the Native Americans. You think they didn't wish they had the tools to fight back?

Mike D · #17 06-05-2009, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

And even though you say "you're against it," your last post indicates to me that you are all for gun control. Sheesh.

Kip didn't say he was against gun control. I did. He has a right to his point of view.

p.s., I LOVED the pic on the bottom of your post!

Zeus · #18 06-05-2009, 09:14 AM

One thing I've never understood when it comes to gun control arguments is - how many people have actually shot someone in 'self-defense'?

I'll wager not many.

Actually shooting and killing another human being is something that I would never want on my conscience. I have a lot of respect for soldiers who have had to do so in the line of duty.

I think guns, or more precisely the ownership of a gun, imparts a potentially false sense of security. It could potentially make one think they are safer.

However, in a situation of real violence, how many average gun owners would be able to respond quickly enough, and effectively enough, to properly defend themselves? Would the presence of another gun escalate an already dangerous situation? Would a mugging become a murder as well? Would a break and enter result in deaths?

I've never had a use for a gun, personally, and probably never will. Canada, and Ontario, is looking towards a complete ban on handguns, which I would support.

I'm just sharing a different view, and I do respect the American view on gun ownership. I believe I somewhat understand its origins with the Constitution and an individual's right to bear arms to, in part, protect against a theoretically tyrannical state.

It's interesting how Canada and the US are so similar in many ways, and yet have such contrasting views on major subjects like this. Canadians do own a fair amount of guns per capita, but they are mostly hunting rifles.

Mike D · #19 06-05-2009, 09:35 AM

Hand guns have nothing to do with this. The maroon in the first story was using a rifle.

Zeus · #20 06-05-2009, 09:43 AM

True, but I was inferring more to the sense of security issue and the difference in alignment between our two countries on this issue (with a wide generalization of course).

In general, I think most would agree that as far as crimes go - and the self-defense argument - handguns are the main tool of choice.

As for the guy in the first post, I think you would find his ilk in many countries, my own included...

Mike D · #21 06-05-2009, 10:21 AM

Just to stir the pot up.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/295855.php

It appears we need "idiot control" more than anything else! Oh wait, never mind, we've already elected a lot of them!

connerm · #22 06-05-2009, 10:24 AM

Criminals especially like people who don't have guns. And even though the chances are slim that one would ever have to use a gun (rifle, shotgun, handgun, whatever) in self defense, not having one on-hand pretty much ensures you're going to be unable to negotiate any part of the encounter. Many people take their responsibility for the safety of their family very seriously. They will use all tools at their disposal to protect them. (not a cell phone).

Respectfully submitted.

Zeus · #23 06-05-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

Many people take their responsibility for the safety of their family very seriously. They will use all tools at their disposal to protect them. (not a cell phone).

Respectfully submitted.

With two young sons, I'd wager I take it every bit as seriously as you do. Where we differ is the methods used to attain perceived safety.

As I stated, I'm not criticizing anyone's right to bear arms...I respect that decision. I'm just highlighting how polar the views can be, which I find interesting, that's all.

connerm · #24 06-05-2009, 10:51 AM

Zeus,
You're absolutely right about polarized views. That keeps debate healthy. Can you tell us a little about your plan(s) for family safety (in-home, car, store, etc.)? Thanks.

Zeus · #25 06-05-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connerm

Zeus,
You're absolutely right about polarized views. That keeps debate healthy. Can you tell us a little about your plan(s) for family safety (in-home, car, store, etc.)? Thanks.

Now you're creeping me out..lol.

I was thinking about this and I think it really depends on where you live and crime levels/environment.

If I lived in a gangland area of LA, I'd probably have a change of heart in my viewpoints, and I'd be packing a Glock.

In contrast, where I grew up in Canada, we rarely locked our front door. I still only lock it at night. We didn't even use a deadbolt on our family home for years. The threat was never there. Guns were just not a part of life - we rarely saw them and I only ever fired a real gun in my late teens. Same with our friends/relatives, etc. - guns were not a presence. We had rifles at cottages and farms, but more for pest control than protection.

Perhaps there is a luxury of innocence implicit in this, and if so, I'm glad it still exists - whether in part, whole, or imagined.

Mike D · #26 06-05-2009, 11:16 AM

Yeah but you guys don't have to worry about being invaded. The entire world knows you are all crazed hockey players and everyone has a hockey stick in their closet!

Zeus · #27 06-05-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

Yeah but you guys don't have to worry about being invaded. The entire world knows you are all crazed hockey players and everyone has a hockey stick in their closet!

Sharpened, illegal blade curvature hockey sticks at that!

Mike D · #28 06-05-2009, 11:25 AM

See! That last post proves it! You know the difference between curvatures on the blade! Sneaky, sneaky!

Us, we Americans got, ummmmm, basketball! Yeah! You break into MY house and I'll jump shot right over your carcass! That'll show you!

JonL · #29 06-05-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeus

One thing I've never understood when it comes to gun control arguments is - how many people have actually shot someone in 'self-defense'?

I'll wager not many.

Actually shooting and killing another human being is something that I would never want on my conscience. I have a lot of respect for soldiers who have had to do so in the line of duty.

I think guns, or more precisely the ownership of a gun, imparts a potentially false sense of security. It could potentially make one think they are safer.

However, in a situation of real violence, how many average gun owners would be able to respond quickly enough, and effectively enough, to properly defend themselves? Would the presence of another gun escalate an already dangerous situation? Would a mugging become a murder as well? Would a break and enter result in deaths?

I've never had a use for a gun, personally, and probably never will. Canada, and Ontario, is looking towards a complete ban on handguns, which I would support.

I'm just sharing a different view, and I do respect the American view on gun ownership. I believe I somewhat understand its origins with the Constitution and an individual's right to bear arms to, in part, protect against a theoretically tyrannical state.

It's interesting how Canada and the US are so similar in many ways, and yet have such contrasting views on major subjects like this. Canadians do own a fair amount of guns per capita, but they are mostly hunting rifles.

THIS American shares your view. I think you have stated it very well.

Another post made the point that criminals are not going to simply go away. Therefore, I believe that a more heavily armed general populace will simply create an arms race with the criminals, and as you have said muggings will become murders. The crime rate in NYC dropped farther and faster than anyone could have imagined yet NYC has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation AND there is no shortage of weaponry amongst the criminals. I would conclude that increased gun ownership is therefore not the answer. Crime is a societal problem, and must be tackled as such.

OMEGAMAN · #30 06-05-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

THIS American shares your view. I think you have stated it very well.

Another post made the point that criminals are not going to simply go away. Therefore, I believe that a more heavily armed general populace will simply create an arms race with the criminals, and as you have said muggings will become murders. The crime rate in NYC dropped farther and faster than anyone could have imagined yet NYC has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation AND there is no shortage of weaponry amongst the criminals. I would conclude that increased gun ownership is therefore not the answer. Crime is a societal problem, and must be tackled as such.

Werent the gun laws in place long before the drop in crime?