See, here's the problem. I already live a very simple life. I have a small house, old cars, no debt, etc. I have, by US standards and quite likely European standards, etc. an already low impact lifestyle. You think its okay if "we" all "pay a little more" for our food. I already do that by buying local, farm coop, etc. I've heard this all before. Pay a "little more" for my food, my electricity, my fuel, healthcare, etc. etc. I already pay enough. I'm the guy that said, yeah, I'd put a gun to my head if I had to eat vegetarian. Actually, I'd just go get my meat myself, not eat beans of not eat at all, like I said.

If you are naive enough to think that the "world" wouldn't choose themselves over you, any minute of any day of the week, then have that nice plate of beans. India, China, etc. will still be there, working hard to "be like us" even long after even "WE" are no longer like that. Think about that.

RT

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Technically we really should only be eating animals directly underneath us in the food chain.

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Just being alive effects everyone else on the planet. What "you" (meaning everyone) eat effects everyone on this planet, period. It is impossible to avoid this effect, and anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

1. I don't think that paying a little more for anything is the solution. I think that reducing consumption and the environmental impact of that consumption is important. Assessing the true costs of the things we consume and including those costs in the selling price would be one way to encourage reduced and sustainable consumption by using market forces instead of pure regulation. If you are already living a simple, low-impact life I wouldn't expect there to be much cost increase, if any, to you from this proposal.

2. I don't understand why you place so much importance on eating meat that you'd sooner die than give it up. If that's how you feel, fine. I haven't eaten meat (other than fish) in over twenty years. It doesn't even seem like food to me anymore but you can bet your ass that I'd be eating meat sooner than starving to death or killing myself. My point in my original post was that despite your rather extreme position, I believe you'd change your tune after ONE DAY of hunger. You'd be eating beans a lot sooner than starving to death. Maybe I'm wrong about you, it doesn't really matter.

3. The world may choose themselves over me, and I may choose myself over them. But we're all in one boat now. This planet earth is a lifeboat filled to overflowing with people. The choices I make regarding a low-impact lifestyle are every bit as much for me and my loved ones as they are for the rest of the world. Unfortunately for me and everyone else, the selfish and high-impact choices that many others make also affect me, my loved ones, and everyone else. That will have to change. It will change either by conscious and relatively palatable means by people working together, or it will change in chaotic and catastrophic ways when the planet's support systems begin to collapse. Not only will there be very painful natural events, but there will be wars over the remaining resources.

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1987 W201 190D

I mistyped my second response, it should have said "I'd just go get my meat myself, NOT eat beans or not eat at all, like I said." You should take that to mean that I would go get game myself. I already eat various game frequently. I'm not about to let the high price of store bought meat, etc. take it out of my diet. I don't eat an unhealthy amount of anything. I happen to enjoy animal protein in most any form. The fact that you don't eat it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I've tried the vegetarian thing, at one point for many months. Didn't do it for me. Different strokes and all that.

The rest of the developing world wants what we have. Telling them no is not going to be pretty. RT

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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

I would sure like to see some of those values become popular again. I work with a fellow that actually lets his kids 4 boys say N-word as thought the word were carburator. The youngest is 11. Also turns a blind eye to theft. I wonder what the world will be like when those little animals are in positions of influence?

I agree. It is not going to be pretty at all. Although the Kyoto protocol (whether you favor it or not) is pretty interesting in that the developing countries are willing to put a cap on their CO2 emissions (and hence their development) as long as the developed world is willing to cut back too. So it would seem that the leadership recognizes the need to do something. It could also be that if the global warming predictions are at all accurate, a lot of the third world will feel the brunt soonest.

I don't want to get this off track onto global warming... the intent above was to illustrate that the third world does seem to be willing to moderate their growth, although fundamentally I agree that they do want much of what we have.

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1987 W201 190D

They'll probably wind up in jail.

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1987 W201 190D

I do think we are over fishing the resources. The Somolia pirates started out to defend their waters from foriegn fishing boats. Japan raided the Gulf of Baja. The other aspect is enviromental. To much polution going into the water. PBS did a documentary on the Chesepeke bay. A lot of nitrogens going into the water. A lot of political clout from chicken producers that shirk their responsibilities. We also see this in the Geat Lakes and Gulf of Mexico. THere is a lot of fertilizer run off, especially from cornfields. There is some progress being made.
I can remember in the late 80's that a farmer near the Letort in Carlise PA hauled out a container or pig fertilizer. The wagon got stuck in the mud. So the farmer dumped the fertilizer. Then the farmer went back and filled up again, to get stuck again and dump the fertilizer. This killed off a lot of trout in the Letort. If you look at the satistics 60% of water polution is agracultural based. Also, there is a growing concern about hormone levels in the water supply. The estrogen from birth control pills might be affecting the gender basis in the fish population.
Tom

Change starts at home.
You cannot change other people just yourself.

Attraction rather than promotion.

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When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
Jimi Hendrix