This thread reminds me of my favorite part in Borat.

Lalalalolollolllalal!

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

It's even more difficult when people put words into your mouth. I didn't write anything about religion slithering into politics and the person who did was referencing religious fanatics.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I'd like to point out that no libertarian would be gun controlling.

My parents were christian but not that religious. Seems like after the kids left the house, they became more religious as they grew older. Their greatest worry is that I don't accept their deity and that is something that will cause the world to end. Case in point. My cousin died in a motorcycle accident. They worry for him because he has not accepted the faith and is probably burning in the depths of hell.

I think that as they grew older and more secure they stopped feeling the pressure to make things happen. As such, they have more time to feel the fear and decided to hedge their bets. After all, if the are wrong, they feel that it is little lost. If they don't believe and they are wrong, well......

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

My mother-in-law is a devout Pentecostal. (Apostolic Church) When she started having children and grandchildren who were unbelievers she engaged in her own creative theology. She decided that no parent or grandparent could be happy in heaven knowing some offspring was burning in hell, hence that part of traditional Christian theology must be wrong.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Pardon me but that sounds like "Since I can't control the game the way I want, I will change the rules.". She as decedents that will, according to the doctrine, burn in hell. Since she does not like that outcome and cannot change it she changes the only thing possible, the rules of the game.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Exactly. Since we all invent the rules of the game anyway, why not invent rules that make sense to us??

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Hehe,

I knew a bunch of girls way back in high school that were "Born Again" wait till marriage types. I had the unfortunate experience of dating one. I make my intentions quite clear in common conversation that I am quite a proud "socialist " who is has nearly no faith in organized religion.

I kinda want to find her when she gets married and say back, "Wasn't so great now was it?"

That's sadly how most "devout" Christians respond to non believers.

I just take solace in knowing that I strive to live a peaceful and balanced life. I try to treat others the way I want to be treated, with care and respect.

I don't subscribe to organized religion, however if pushed I was baptized catholic and confirmed Lutheran. All of the fun traditions of Catholicism without the guilt!

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-Typos courtesy of my mobile phone.

One of the problems with her reasoniong is, "Where does it stop?" As soon as you become the "authority" you are no longer believing what the Bible says, or even what someone says that the Bible says.
Thomas Jefferson did that--he cut out all supernatural references from his Bible.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Dr Hugh Ross came to be a born-again christian just by logic without any fear involved.


by Dr. Hugh Ross
My Search for Truth

I was born in Montreal and raised in Vancouver, Canada. My parents were morally upright but non-religious. Our neighbors could also be described as non-religious. I did not know any Christians or serious followers of any other religion while I was growing up.

Though my neighborhood was poor, its public schools were outstanding and its libraries well equipped By age seven I was reading physics books as fast as I could check them out. By eight I had decided to make astronomy my career. In the next several years my study of the big bang convinced me that the universe had a beginning, and thus a Beginner. But, like the astronomers whose books I read, I imagined that the Beginner must be distant and non-communicative.

My high school history studies disturbed me, for it was obvious that the peoples of the world tended to take their religions very seriously. Knowing that the European philosophers of the Enlightenment largely discounted religion, my initial response was to study their works. What I discovered, however, were inconsistencies, contradictions, evasions, and circular reasoning.

The obvious next step was to turn to the "holy" books themselves. If God the Creator had spoken through any of these books (and I thought He probably had not) his authorship would be obvious: the communication would be perfectly true. I reasoned that if men invent a religion, their teachings will reflect human error. But, if the Creator communicates, His message will be error free and just as consistent as the facts of nature. So, I used the facts of history and science to test each of the "holy" books.

Initially my task was easy. After only a few hours (in some cases less) of reading, I could find one or more statements clearly at odds with the facts of history and science. I also noted a writing style best described as esoteric and mysterious; it seemed inconsistent with the character of the Creator as implied by the facts of nature. My task was easy until I dusted off the Bible that the Gideons had given me several years earlier as part of their distribution program in the public schools.

I found the Bible noticeably different. It was simple, direct, and specific. I was amazed at the quantity of historical and scientific (i.e., testable) material it included and at the detail of this material. The first page of the Bible caught my attention. Not only did its author correctly describe the major events in the creation of life on earth, but he placed those events in the scientifically correct order and properly identified the earth's initial conditions.

For the next year and a half I spent about an hour a day searching the Bible for scientific and historical inaccuracies. I finally had to admit that it was error free and that this perfect accuracy could only come from the Creator Himself. I also recognized that the Bible stood alone in describing God and His dealings with man from a perspective that demanded more than just the dimensions we humans experience (length, width, height, and time). Further, I had proven to myself, on the basis of predicted history and science, that the Bible was more reliable than many of the laws of physics. My only rational option was to trust the Bible's authority to the same degree as I trusted the laws of physics.

By this time I clearly understood that Jesus Christ was the Creator of the universe, that He paid the price that only a sinless person could pay for all of my offenses against God, and that eternal life would be mine if I would receive His pardon and give Him His rightful place of authority over my life.

Not a religious person myself, but if the US offends you, there are plenty of other more secular countries you could move to. Dont go to europe though, in a generation or so, they will be ruled by Sharia law if things dont change. If you think fundamentalist Christians are fanatics, wait till you meet the muslims...

That's why we should move further away from religious fundamentalism.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Last time I read the constitution, the U.S. government was completely secular. As for individual americans, they can believe in santa if they choose, but they can't impose their craziness on anyone else. Fundamentalist christians and fundamentalist muslims are equally scary if they have any actual influence on government.

Reading the stuff you excerpted from him I call BS on that one. The guy was searching for mumbo jumbo from an early age.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Let's not use "logic" and "christian" in the same sentence this early in the morning.