Hey Joe College. Spare me a dime? - Page 5 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Kuan · #61 12-29-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Those numbers sound about right. The problem with engineering pay is that it flattens out at 10-15 years for most people (very low six figures). At that point you need to go into management or go out on your own to grow your income. I worked for a consulting company for 18 years, then went out on my own to do what I wanted and to avoid having to become a manager.

I think that's just the natural progression. Some companies have different management tracks so you can get into the technical side or the business side. From what I see, technical manager or director is really cool. You get to go test new equipment and technology, break things and not have to pay for them, oversee a bunch of lab monkeys, etc.

#62 12-29-2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

I think that's just the natural progression. Some companies have different management tracks so you can get into the technical side or the business side. From what I see, technical manager or director is really cool. You get to go test new equipment and technology, break things and not have to pay for them, oversee a bunch of lab monkeys, etc.

It depends what field your working in. Personally, I would rather engineer than manage people. I have friends who are now managers in engineering companies, they spent too much time listening to people complain about their last raise or their next assignment. I'm glad I got out of the dilbert world; more freedom, less hassle, better money, no job security, no benefits.

tbomachines · #63 12-29-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Tom,
I hope I didn't offend you by relating our conversation. I am not being critical of her (and her parents) decision. Sadly, there are probably thousands like her graduating every year. I was stunned by the magnitude of the debt she's leaving there with. I'm just pissed off that colleges fill the rooms and giant lecture halls with students, take your (borrowed) money, hand you a diploma, then turn around and ask you to give to the Endowment Fund.

With third party direct pay (Hello Mr. Pell) or financing (Hello Messrs. Perkins and Stafford) available, colleges for the last few decades have had little incentive to keep costs low and tuition reasonable. I also think there is a prestige premium built in to the tuition. Probably anywhere from 10 to 30% depending on how "big" the name or how high they are in College Rankings by USNWR. Do you think if the school was, say, ranked number 20 instead of where it is, it would be able to charge as much as it does? I don't.

I also sympathize with today's graduates who have to look for work in a very, very difficut job climate. One that in my opinion will be very challenging for 3 to 5 years. Lots of old timers still hanging on out of economic necessity.

Happy New Year to you both

.... and good ridance to this sorry decade.

No offense taken at all! I've found that my classmates fell into two categories--one group would take out tons of loans, hope for the best and work hard to make sure they get their moneys worth. The other half has it fully paid for by parents and generally doesn't take it too seriously...my gf and I both part of the former. There is surprisingly little middle ground between the two. I agree that the price of colleges and the "prestige" factor is somewhat sickening. Especially since doing well on NCAA athletics, the school has gotten massive amounts of attention so they don't need to dish out the financial aid as much. They can take all the "top" students coming from elite private schools, leaving little room for the masses below.

My brother graduated 4 years ahead of me into a great job market. His loans are nearly all paid off by now whereas just a few years later, a large percentage of graduates will be working retail jobs to pay high five and six figure debts...just dumb luck. He's making over twice as much as me with mediocre grades/experience and bachelor's degree where I'm halfway through a Masters program, blah blah blah sibling rivalry. I generally say good for him though, he better not lose that job...

And happy new year to you and your family as well!

Skid Row Joe · #64 12-29-2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

It shows me as an employer that you can commit to something and achieve it. That is something important to me. I would rather see that as opposed to somebody who has flights of fancy.

"As an employer," you're lookin' in the wrong place if you think education assures you of anything they'll do in your employ. Previous OTJT is the highest form of assurance. -Actual performance trumps 'education' every time. Ask me how I know.

Skid Row Joe · #65 12-30-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I wouldn't recommend doing the community collage route unless it is necessary due to cost or grades. Community collage is not the same experience as a four-year college, and many students will lose a year due to transfer credits not being accepted. For some people it's the only way to able to obtain a degree, but it's not optimum.

If 2-year community colleges aren't "real schools," as you stated in another post.....what are they?

#66 12-30-2009, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

If 2-year community colleges aren't "real schools," as you stated in another post.....what are they?

I was responding to another post that used the term "real schools," I have nothing against community colleges; they provide opportunities to millions of people who would not be able to attend 4-year college/university for various reasons.

They do have a reputation of being the "13th grade," because they tend to lack the traditional college experience. They also tend to be very vocational, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Skid Row Joe · #67 12-30-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Regardless of work plans, I would recommend almost everyone having some post-secondary education. Not everyone wants/needs a degree, but having some formal education is always a good thing. Many young people (including myself, at the time) thought of college as a trade school, that is a missed opportunity to actually learn something.

Not true. Wasting time in post-secondary education did little for my self-employed career as a sales agency principle, in manufacturer's representation. I learned zilch in the 3 years spent in college environments that I use in my company. I'm starting my 37th year next week as an agency principle, I might add.

If you believe it does, then you must outline exactly what it does do for any individual. What ifs and maybes don't cut it.

Skid Row Joe · #68 12-30-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I was responding to another post that used the term "real schools," I have nothing against community colleges; they provide opportunities to millions of people who would not be able to attend 4-year college/university for various reasons.

They do have a reputation of being the "13th grade," because they tend to lack the traditional college experience. They also tend to be very vocational, not that there's anything wrong with that.

I believe you're dead wrong calling them "13th grade" schools. They are real schools. Why you claim they are not is certainly puzzling.

Skid Row Joe · #69 12-30-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

State schools are becoming popular because people can afford them.

Always have been too. In state, state schooling would be the way to go for anyone seeking the most for the least money.

Private schools and out-of-state college educations are totally not worth it. One of my Brothers is into the out-of-state, private, parochial education deal for his kids. He and his wife cash-flow $70K a year for three of their college kids right now. One attends a school 1,300 miles from their Omaha, NE. home. -So not worth it, in my experience with college-educated people in my industry.

aklim · #70 12-30-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

"As an employer," you're lookin' in the wrong place if you think education assures you of anything they'll do in your employ. Previous OTJT is the highest form of assurance. -Actual performance trumps 'education' every time. Ask me how I know.

It is not just the education I am talking about. I don't care if it is education or the Marines, Army or whatever. I am looking for whether you are going to be able to be there when things get tough or whether you will have flights of fancy. When you hire a 20 yo person, you aren't going to get much OTJT history to look at. At 30 yo, you get some and so on. Problem with On The Job Training ONLY is that it becomes hard to evaluate whether the person has the perseverance to stick to a course. Take this girl I know who has changed many majors in 10 years. Is that a plus? Hell no. She doesn't know what she wants and changes it like her hairstyle. Might she be capable? Sure. Is it going to help me if she gets a job with me and spends a lot of training time and then quit because she got bored with it?

The nice thing about college is that it tells me what you are like during a 4 yr period. I want to know if you can stick to your plan even when it gets really rough. If you are like the girl I mentioned who changed 5 majors in 10 years before you graduate, IMO, you are suspect. Looks to me like you don't think things thru, change when the going gets tough. Are you someone I want to invest much time and money in?

TheDon · #71 12-30-2009, 12:31 AM

CC is a joke and a waste of time.. I found that out the hard way.

#72 12-30-2009, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Not true. Wasting time in post-secondary education did little for my self-employed career as a sales agency principle, in manufacturer's representation. I learned zilch in the 3 years spent in college environments that I use in my company. I'm starting my 37th year next week as an agency principle, I might add.

If you believe it does, then you must outline exactly what it does do for any individual. What ifs and maybes don't cut it.

Sorry, maybe everyone does not value education that cannot be directly translated to a job skill. I happen to think "non-vocational" education is just as important as learning a marketable trade; not everyone will agree. My grandfather was very successful with a 6th grade education.

I was repeating the "13th grade" comment that I've heard about 1000 times. It refers to the environment of many community colleges. I have a daughter attending a community college part-time, they do provide a very valuable service. However, they tend to "feel" like a continuation of high school, and they do not attract top students so the learning environment can be less than optimum. I have nothing against them, and I'm glad they exist; but I would not recommend them to someone who has the resources/grades to attend a traditional college/university and is looking for a well-rounded education. IMO, they are essentially post-secondary trade schools (which is exactly what some folks want/need).

aklim · #73 12-30-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I happen to think "non-vocational" education is just as important as learning a marketable trade; not everyone will agree.

My grandfather was very successful with a 6th grade education.

I would say that it depends. If you were like me when I graduated, I think not. I had a wife who was legally unable to get a job and I had no real funds except a small stipend that was run out, had to play musical credit cards to get some food till I got a job. OTOH, if you have a positive bank balance and/or assurance of funds, sure.

My grandfather made a good living back then with that level of education. Of course, the education level back then was way different so it is hard to compare.

#74 12-30-2009, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

CC is a joke and a waste of time.. I found that out the hard way.

It depends on the situation. One of my undergrad classmates had dropped out of high school due to some personal "issues." After several years he took a GED spent two years in a CC and ended up being very successful in an engineering program at university. I think it's possible to ignore all the "high school" BS at a CC and collect some credits to put towards a degree. I would think of it as an intermediate step for many students.

#75 12-30-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I would say that it depends. If you were like me when I graduated, I think not. I had a wife who was legally unable to get a job and I had no real funds except a small stipend that was run out, had to play musical credit cards to get some food till I got a job. OTOH, if you have a positive bank balance and/or assurance of funds, sure.

Obviously, a liberal education is a luxury; you have to take care of the necessities before you spend $50K to study medieval french literature. I do think education for it's own sake is a valuable experience; only if you are interested and have the resources. I wasn't mature enough to appreciate that when I was 20.