............ went right over your head............

Pff me right just fin.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

That's the virtue of the free market and private enterprise, not to mention American style capitalism.

As for Yale, in 2008:

Yale is the latest ivy-league college to announce financial aid reforms. As competition for top students increases, the best schools are competing for academic talent - financially. With this latest announcement, Yale is eliminating all tuition for students who come from families earning an annual income of $60,000 or less.



Dartmouth 2008:

1. Free tuition for students who come from families with annual incomes below $75,000
2. Replacing loans with scholarships
3. Need-blind admissions for international students
4. Junior leave term with no earnings expectation

Brown 2008:

Brown University is eliminating tuition for students whose parents earn less than $60,000, after decisions by fellow Ivy League universities to bolster financial aid as their endowments grow.

The university, in Providence, R.I., said on Saturday that it also planned to substitute grants for student loans in the financial aid packages of students whose families earned less than $100,000 a year. The new program cuts reliance on loans for all students regardless of family income, the university said in a statement posted on its Web site.

First I don't think the majority of the college grads I've dealt with really got their moneys worth.
They have the book learning, well some do, but little or no practical experience.
I always loved when they had a problem, threw fixes at it until they gave up, came to me. In less time than they spent on the first 'fix', I'd show them the problem and outline the solution.
Half the time they still came back to me to help with the solution.

Oh and then my fav was an MBA (recent grad) that I had to explain what ROI meant, fortunately in front of the CEO(I did try cover for him). He'd been with the company for years, got his degree via tutition reimbursment, he was gone several weeks later. Oh he was my boss at the time, a nice guy, but a very bad boss.


IMHO half (problably more) of the problem with rising college costs goes back to the government, match it to the housing bubble but I don't know how this one unwinds.

The more grants, low interest loans, tax breaks etc the government hands out, the more the colleges raise their price, so the government throws more grants etc, so the colleges raise their rates, so the .....

Part of it is basic economics, the law of supply and demand, as the government throws more money for kids to go to college, more go, again ...

And how many grads do you know that actually work in their field after a few years.

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

return on investment?

I don't see the gov handing out money for college.
FAFSA estimated we could afford a massive amount, seems they
look at your home equity, sure we could sell our house to pay for college

College was never meant as a means of job training. It was meant as a "pursuit" of truth and knowledge to broadly apply that knowledge to problems one may encounter in his or her life.

Sadly like I said earlier undergraduate and to some point graduate level degrees have become nothing more then pieces of paper that allow you to bypass the first level of HR pruning.

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-Typos courtesy of my mobile phone.

Yes, ROI is Return on Investment.
We had to make a choice between 2 projects.
The one he was pushing was breakeven with optimistic estimates after a year.
The other, while requiring almost 50% more investment, would pay for itself in 6 month tops, with very conservative numbers. And it did.
Fortunately the CEO knew I used conservative numbers as a rule AND put in a cushion in the cost to cover those inevitable problems.
So I explained that his project did not have the ROI needed to justify it.
He looked at me puzzled so I explained the numbers, and repeated it didn't have the ROI. This time I came back and asked what he didn't understand, thats when he said he I shouldn't use technical terms, like ROI, in a briefing with management aka the Board and CEO. OOPS. The CFO explained the term to him.

"Handing Out" is probably a bad choice of words.
How about "Makes Available".

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

If I had the energy, I'd laugh. Yeah ... lit major probably not going to land that 100k gig. Ever. Let alone right out of college.

__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

I know a couple of people who do OK as spokespersons (PR folks) for large companies and government agencies. These organizations often need people who can translate from geek to english and write a coherent press release.

I agree. Unfortunately, much of the the specific information taught will be obsolete in 10-15 years; the real function of college/university is to teach critical thinking.

You college bashers have not seen the good side of college. Most science related jobs require an advanced degree. All of science is built on foundations established hundreds, or even thousands, of years ago. There is no Physics without Archimedes, there is no Math without Al Jabr, no Logic without Aristotle.

An BS in EE over here starts at $55k. That's not bad for a four year. A Master's in Chem. E starts at $65k, a PhD around $70k.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Hmm...I seem to remember this conversation

Working working, paying off the loans little by little, thats all I can do. My GF (whom I believe you are referring to above) still can't find a job anywhere, and even the connections through school to internships are generally unpaid (she is psychology major). One day both me and her will be pretty well paid, but both have to fund PhD's to get there...its definitely a challenge. Doesn't help that we go to school with a lot of rich spoiled kids either

edit: I should add that I do believe that every penny spent on my education has been 100% worth it. College helped me grow up and realize how much I love my field. 5 years ago I never would have thought I'd have a liberal arts degree, or even be headed to grad school for that matter.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Those numbers sound about right. The problem with engineering pay is that it flattens out at 10-15 years for most people (very low six figures). At that point you need to go into management or go out on your own to grow your income. I worked for a consulting company for 18 years, then went out on my own to do what I wanted and to avoid having to become a manager.

Quite true, but there seems to be plenty of masters and doctoral candidates that are nowhere near achieving their "full potential" in their field. There is a sizable population of those serial matriculators that wind up in retail, food service . . . or, dare I even mention it . . . consulting work.

Tom,
I hope I didn't offend you by relating our conversation. I am not being critical of her (and her parents) decision. Sadly, there are probably thousands like her graduating every year. I was stunned by the magnitude of the debt she's leaving there with. I'm just pissed off that colleges fill the rooms and giant lecture halls with students, take your (borrowed) money, hand you a diploma, then turn around and ask you to give to the Endowment Fund.

With third party direct pay (Hello Mr. Pell) or financing (Hello Messrs. Perkins and Stafford) available, colleges for the last few decades have had little incentive to keep costs low and tuition reasonable. I also think there is a prestige premium built in to the tuition. Probably anywhere from 10 to 30% depending on how "big" the name or how high they are in College Rankings by USNWR. Do you think if the school was, say, ranked number 20 instead of where it is, it would be able to charge as much as it does? I don't.

I also sympathize with today's graduates who have to look for work in a very, very difficut job climate. One that in my opinion will be very challenging for 3 to 5 years. Lots of old timers still hanging on out of economic necessity.


Happy New Year to you both .... and good ridance to this sorry decade.