If I had the energy, I'd laugh. Yeah ... lit major probably not going to land that 100k gig. Ever. Let alone right out of college.

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1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

I know a couple of people who do OK as spokespersons (PR folks) for large companies and government agencies. These organizations often need people who can translate from geek to english and write a coherent press release.

You college bashers have not seen the good side of college. Most science related jobs require an advanced degree. All of science is built on foundations established hundreds, or even thousands, of years ago. There is no Physics without Archimedes, there is no Math without Al Jabr, no Logic without Aristotle.

An BS in EE over here starts at $55k. That's not bad for a four year. A Master's in Chem. E starts at $65k, a PhD around $70k.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Those numbers sound about right. The problem with engineering pay is that it flattens out at 10-15 years for most people (very low six figures). At that point you need to go into management or go out on your own to grow your income. I worked for a consulting company for 18 years, then went out on my own to do what I wanted and to avoid having to become a manager.

I think that's just the natural progression. Some companies have different management tracks so you can get into the technical side or the business side. From what I see, technical manager or director is really cool. You get to go test new equipment and technology, break things and not have to pay for them, oversee a bunch of lab monkeys, etc.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

It depends what field your working in. Personally, I would rather engineer than manage people. I have friends who are now managers in engineering companies, they spent too much time listening to people complain about their last raise or their next assignment. I'm glad I got out of the dilbert world; more freedom, less hassle, better money, no job security, no benefits.

Quite true, but there seems to be plenty of masters and doctoral candidates that are nowhere near achieving their "full potential" in their field. There is a sizable population of those serial matriculators that wind up in retail, food service . . . or, dare I even mention it . . . consulting work.

Hmm...I seem to remember this conversation

Working working, paying off the loans little by little, thats all I can do. My GF (whom I believe you are referring to above) still can't find a job anywhere, and even the connections through school to internships are generally unpaid (she is psychology major). One day both me and her will be pretty well paid, but both have to fund PhD's to get there...its definitely a challenge. Doesn't help that we go to school with a lot of rich spoiled kids either

edit: I should add that I do believe that every penny spent on my education has been 100% worth it. College helped me grow up and realize how much I love my field. 5 years ago I never would have thought I'd have a liberal arts degree, or even be headed to grad school for that matter.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

Tom,
I hope I didn't offend you by relating our conversation. I am not being critical of her (and her parents) decision. Sadly, there are probably thousands like her graduating every year. I was stunned by the magnitude of the debt she's leaving there with. I'm just pissed off that colleges fill the rooms and giant lecture halls with students, take your (borrowed) money, hand you a diploma, then turn around and ask you to give to the Endowment Fund.

With third party direct pay (Hello Mr. Pell) or financing (Hello Messrs. Perkins and Stafford) available, colleges for the last few decades have had little incentive to keep costs low and tuition reasonable. I also think there is a prestige premium built in to the tuition. Probably anywhere from 10 to 30% depending on how "big" the name or how high they are in College Rankings by USNWR. Do you think if the school was, say, ranked number 20 instead of where it is, it would be able to charge as much as it does? I don't.

I also sympathize with today's graduates who have to look for work in a very, very difficut job climate. One that in my opinion will be very challenging for 3 to 5 years. Lots of old timers still hanging on out of economic necessity.


Happy New Year to you both .... and good ridance to this sorry decade.

No offense taken at all! I've found that my classmates fell into two categories--one group would take out tons of loans, hope for the best and work hard to make sure they get their moneys worth. The other half has it fully paid for by parents and generally doesn't take it too seriously...my gf and I both part of the former. There is surprisingly little middle ground between the two. I agree that the price of colleges and the "prestige" factor is somewhat sickening. Especially since doing well on NCAA athletics, the school has gotten massive amounts of attention so they don't need to dish out the financial aid as much. They can take all the "top" students coming from elite private schools, leaving little room for the masses below.

My brother graduated 4 years ahead of me into a great job market. His loans are nearly all paid off by now whereas just a few years later, a large percentage of graduates will be working retail jobs to pay high five and six figure debts...just dumb luck. He's making over twice as much as me with mediocre grades/experience and bachelor's degree where I'm halfway through a Masters program, blah blah blah sibling rivalry. I generally say good for him though, he better not lose that job...

And happy new year to you and your family as well!

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

CC is a joke and a waste of time.. I found that out the hard way.

It depends on the situation. One of my undergrad classmates had dropped out of high school due to some personal "issues." After several years he took a GED spent two years in a CC and ended up being very successful in an engineering program at university. I think it's possible to ignore all the "high school" BS at a CC and collect some credits to put towards a degree. I would think of it as an intermediate step for many students.