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  #1  
Old 01-23-2010, 06:33 PM
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US Interventionism

4 minutes well invested:

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=9628

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  #2  
Old 01-23-2010, 08:21 PM
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2 interviews with Ron Paul. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh2sBKpLxpQ & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UNC1vtP0a0&feature=related
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2010, 09:11 PM
helpplease
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How dare we help other countries facing genocide or who need assistance!!!! Its only the U.S. that matters in this world!!! There is no other country that matters!!!!!

I am so angry right now that the U.S. spends my money to save lives and improve others situations across the world!!!
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  #4  
Old 01-24-2010, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helpplease View Post
How dare we help other countries facing genocide or who need assistance!!!! Its only the U.S. that matters in this world!!! There is no other country that matters!!!!!

I am so angry right now that the U.S. spends my money to save lives and improve others situations across the world!!!
have we really "helped" the iraquis? or the afghanis?

and who created those situations? (when we were previously "helping"?)

(just asking)

(i am all for helping the poor, godforsaken haitians. of course, we "helped" them from 1919 to 1934)
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  #5  
Old 01-24-2010, 02:12 AM
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We are not God's answer to the world's problems, but we are still the only country able to provide the answers, IF we get our act together.

As much as I like Ron Paul, he speaks as an outsider. Put him in the White House and he will quickly be weighed down by the reality of internal intelligence reports, voter apathy, and dealing with one or multiple domestic or international disasters. Just like Obama. Should we be the policeman of the world? Should anybody be? Would we be better off if China took over that role?
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
have we really "helped" the iraquis? or the afghanis?

and who created those situations? (when we were previously "helping"?)

(just asking)

(i am all for helping the poor, godforsaken haitians. of course, we "helped" them from 1919 to 1934)
I will agree that we haven't helped the Iraqis and have only made their lives worse. But Afghanis? I would like to think we are at least trying to help. And we have very good reasons to be over in Afganistan. Where as Iraq we didn't/don't...
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  #7  
Old 01-24-2010, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by helpplease View Post
I will agree that we haven't helped the Iraqis and have only made their lives worse. But Afghanis? I would like to think we are at least trying to help. And we have very good reasons to be over in Afganistan. Where as Iraq we didn't/don't...
well, bin laden is still on the loose, after eight+ years, and he was the alleged impetus for the whole afghan campaign.

basically, afghanistan is a black hole, which everyone from the english to the russians have already figured out.

unless, possibly, we had other reasons for rushing in there? i.e. a replay of the "great game" / cold war ?
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  #8  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:16 AM
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Wonder how it would have turned out if another country rushed to our "aid" during our civil war ?

I think the hipocratic oath and star track have something to say about this issue.

Do no harm
Do not intervene.
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  #9  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:35 AM
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Wonder how it would have turned out if another country rushed to our "aid" during our civil war ?
That was not unthinkable, both the french and english were being lobbied by the south to become involved and create a separate nation that would have friendly trade relations with europe. One of the reasons for the Emancipation Proclamation was to try to keep the european powers from becoming involved (by making a "moral" argument). Old europe had no problem fighting proxy wars in the new world.
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by helpplease View Post
I am so angry right now that the U.S. spends my money to save lives and improve others situations across the world!!!
A question. Has it escaped you that we are broke? We have been borrowing to spend. Is it wrong for me to compare our situation with someone who is buying stuff on the Credit Card, making min payments and borrowing even more to spend. Now that guy wants to make more charitable donations.

I'm sorry but I can't see the logic in that. 50 years ago, sure. Today?
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  #11  
Old 01-24-2010, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RichC View Post
I think the hipocratic oath and star track have something to say about this issue.

Do no harm
Do not intervene.
I think you are missing out chunks of valuable information
Quote:
I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement: To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
With that, abortions and Physician Assisted Suicide are off the table too.

Quote:
Star Trek, no track:In the fictional universe of Star Trek, the Prime Directive, Starfleet's General Order #1, is the most prominent guiding principle of the United Federation of Planets. The Prime Directive dictates that there can be no interference with the internal development of pre-warp civilizations, consistent with the historical real world concept of Westphalian sovereignty. It has special implications, however, for civilizations that have not yet developed the technology for interstellar spaceflight ("pre-warp"), since no primitive culture can be given or exposed to any information regarding advanced technology or the existence of extraplanetary civilizations, lest this exposure alter the natural development of the civilization. Although this was the only application stated by Captain Kirk in "Return of the Archons", by the 24th Century, it had been indicated to include purposeful efforts to improve or change in any way the natural course of such a society, even if that change is well-intentioned and kept completely secret. "Pre-warp" is defined as any culture which has not yet attained warp drive technology and is thus, implicitly, unaware of the existence of alien races. Starfleet allows scientific missions to investigate and secretly move amongst pre-warp civilizations as long as no advanced technology is left behind, and there is no interference with events or no revelation of their identity. This can usually be accomplished with hidden observation posts, but Federation personnel may disguise themselves as local sentient life and interact with them.
Not quite what you stated
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  #12  
Old 01-24-2010, 07:59 PM
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The Downing Street Memo.
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File Type: pdf dsmemo.pdf (71.8 KB, 464 views)

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