Health care Summit - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTI · #76 02-27-2010, 02:42 PM

Oh, I think the free program is the one with the "death panels" that are going to kill granny and pa-pa.

450slcguy · #77 02-27-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Oh, I think the free program is the one with the "death panels" that are going to kill granny and pa-pa.

I find it incomprehensible on how ignorant many people are on the HC reform bill. This is what happens when the mouth drowns out the ears, you become deaf, dumb(literally), and blind.

retmil46 · #78 02-27-2010, 03:23 PM

Oops, my mistake thinking we could have a rational debate, when in reality I was having a batlle of wits with two unarmed opponents.

The two of you can feel free to continue your love fest with each other, belittling and badmouthing (ie, ignorant, deaf, dumb, blind) those who don't share your views. That's obviously more pleasing to you than rational discussion.

I'm outta here.

450slcguy · #79 02-27-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

Oops, my mistake thinking we could have a rational debate, when in reality I was having a batlle of wits with two unarmed opponents.

The two of you can feel free to continue your love fest with each other, belittling and badmouthing (ie, ignorant, deaf, dumb, blind) those who don't share your views. That's obviously more pleasing to you than rational discussion.

I'm outta here.

Rational discussion involves accurate information, not hysterical ranting and and disinformation.

Skid Row Joe · #80 02-27-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Yea right. I'll comment irregardless of your self imposed moderation.

First off, I think Obama did a great job moderating the summit.

Secondly, I'm against scrapping the current work that's been done. The proposed step by step approach suggested by the Repo's is just another kill tactic by the Republicans to object, misinform, politicize, and stall any meaningful reform. I'm not falling for it.

Thirdly, while the current plan may not be ideal and doesn't address everyone's concerns, it's a step in the right direction. Nothing is written in stone that can't be modified in the future if necessary.

Lastly, there is a reason why both houses and the Presidency is in democrats hands. They have a large majority in both houses because that's what the people wanted. I would like to see an bi-partisan plan negotiated, but it's doubtfull that's possible in the near or distant future.

If the Majority party has the power to pass this plan by reconciliation, then so be it. It's time to both humble and humiliate the republicans and put them in their place as the minority party.

^^^ I think this would qualify as disinformation and ranting.

Big problem - in case you haven't noticed, 70% of we Americans don't want it. Polls tell the story here.

There's a reason why it's DOA - it's being proposed under one-party rule. Obama offered nothing new. He doesn't have the votes - even under one party rule. Thankfully, some of the elected in his party understand exactly what it the means when 70% of the American populous are against it. One party rule doesn't work.

This illustrates and proves my point:

Saturday, February 27, 2010

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 22% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Forty-three percent (43%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -21. That matches the lowest Approval Index rating yet recorded for President Obama.

The only other time the Approval Index was this low came in late December as the U.S. Senate prepared to approve its version of health care reform.

450slcguy · #81 02-27-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

^^^ I think this would qualify as disinformation and ranting.

Big problem - in case you haven't noticed, 70% of we Americans don't want it. Polls tell the story here.

There's a reason why it's DOA - it's being proposed under one-party rule. Obama offered nothing new. He doesn't have the votes - even under one party rule. Thankfully, some of the elected in his party understand exactly what it the means when 70% of the American populous are against it. One party rule doesn't work.

I think we can both agree that his approval/disapproval rating closely follows the party line. As to whether HC is DOA, that remains to be seen when/if it's put for vote.

Concerning how the Rasmussen report calculates their poll numbers, I have some reservation on their methods. As always, statisctics and words can be twisted either way to reflect what end result one is trying to prove or disprove. Personally, I prefer the simple approve or disapprove appoach.

"When we asked the question in the standard Rasmussen Reports format, we found that 47% of voters approved while 52% disapproved. Those figures include 28% who Strongly Approve and 41% who Strongly Disapprove."

"However, we got different results when we simply asked if people Approved or Disapproved. When we took away the options of Strongly Approve/Disapprove and Somewhat Approve/Disapprove, the results were 50% approve and 46% disapprove. It’s important to note that the difference could be just statistical noise in a survey with a +/- 4 percentage point margin of sampling error".

Gallup
February 22, 2010
Obama Approval Rating Continues to Hover Around 50% Latest weekly average is 49

daveuz · #82 02-27-2010, 07:34 PM

How much of the poll reflects those who are disstatisfied the bill doesn't have the public option? Just 34% of voters nationwide support the health care reform plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats if the so-called “public option” is removed. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 57% oppose the plan if it doesn't include a government-run health insurance plan to compete with private insurers.

daveuz · #83 02-27-2010, 07:38 PM

It will be interesting to see the poll numbers when the details of Reconciliation Bill start to emerge.

450slcguy · #84 02-27-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz

It will be interesting to see the poll numbers when the details of Reconciliation Bill start to emerge.

Yes it will be very interesting, especially if the bill passes. My guess is if it does pass, his numbers will go up. But of course, the inverse could also apply.

daveuz · #85 02-27-2010, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Yes it will be very interesting, especially if the bill passes. My guess is if it does pass, his numbers will go up. But of course, the inverse could also apply.

I believe there is much to fix in the current bill but think that most of the poll numbers reflect the big mis-information campaign done by the GOP. One such example were the "Death Panels" another the medicare advantage cuts broad brushed as medicare cuts. THE GOP knows a thing or 2 about cutting those ACTUAL programs. John McCain would pay for his health plan with major reductions to Medicare and Medicaid, a top aide said, in a move that independent analysts estimate could result in cuts of $1.3 trillion over 10 years to the government programs. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122315505846605217.html

450slcguy · #86 02-27-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz

I believe there is much to fix in the current bill but think that most of the poll numbers reflect the big mis-information campaign done by the GOP. One such example were the "Death Panels" another the medicare advantage cuts broad brushed as medicare cuts.

I agree. Just look how many people on this forum still think this is a free public plan administered by the government, similar to Canada's national health care. It's not even close.

MS Fowler · #87 02-27-2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I could not have said it better myself.

Thats why I used your words.

I guess your pretty intelligent yourself.

Even a parrot can do that, and no one thinks parrots are particularly intelligent.

It is, however, annoying. If THAT is your intent, you have succeeded. If you think that is what changes hearts and minds, I am afraid you are mistaken.

daveuz · #88 02-27-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I agree. Just look how many people on this forum still think this is a free public plan administered by the government, similar to Canada's national health care. It's not even close.

here you go:
US HealthCare; Full Text Of President Obama's Health Care Plan

Source: The White House
Published Thursday, 25 February, 2010 - 17:44 http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/34024 Increase Tax Credits for Health Insurance Premiums. Health insurance today often costs too much and covers too little. Lack of affordability leads people to delay care, skip care, rack up large medical bills, or become uninsured. The House and Senate health insurance bills lower premiums through increased competition, oversight, and new accountability standards set by insurance exchanges. The bills also provide tax credits and reduced cost sharing for families with modest income. The President’s Proposal improves the affordability of health care by increasing the tax credits for families. Relative to the Senate bill, the President’s Proposal lowers premiums for families with income below $44,000 and above $66,000. Relative to the House bill, the proposal makes premiums less expensive for families with income between roughly $55,000 and $88,000

daveuz · #89 02-27-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I agree. Just look how many people on this forum still think this is a free public plan administered by the government, similar to Canada's national health care. It's not even close.

Let me add that as you have stated their are those who think it is "free" and those who are complaining that it is unconstitutional to make people "buy" insurance thru the proposed mandate. Sometimes it is the SAME group of people.

MTI · #90 02-27-2010, 10:24 PM

Whatever, I'll just keep on doing my best under my state's uber-socialist healthcare system and our record setting health stats.