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  #16  
Old 05-16-2010, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jlomon View Post
I remember watching a show on Discovery a few years back, a documentary about a B29 that had been discovered up in Greenland, I think - preserved in the ice for 50+ years. A team went up there and restored it over a course of time - I remember a guy actually died during the restoration. They got the thing airworthy and were warming it up to take off from a runway they'd plowed in the snow, and there was an accident inside with a heater system in the back that cause the aircraft to catch fire and burn to the ground right there. The whole team just sat beside it watching it, completely dumbfounded. My eyes teared up pretty good watching that plane burn. Such a tragedy.

We're lucky enough to get buzzed a few times a year by one of two airworth Avro Lancasters in the world. The noise from 4 Merlins is awesome. Last year my son and I were at its home airport and stood about 100 yards behind it as it fired up and taxied out to go to an airshow - the propwash and noise was unbelievable.
Ok, so I'm not the only one then.
Seen that one a few times. One of the saddest stories in vintage aviation recovery out there.
(Simple fuel leak at the APU, I think it was.)
Edit: Kee Bird was the name. It was in AK.


Not to mention the smell.
You should never close the canopy on a -51 start-up.
But you sure as hell want to !!

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Last edited by WVOtoGO; 05-16-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by WVOtoGO View Post
“FIFI” is the only (kept) airworthy B29 at this time. It is based out of the Commemorative Air Force, CAF (Previously named the Confederate Air Force, based in Harlingen TX, until they decided that the salt air wasn’t good for the aircraft and the “not so politically correct” name wasn’t good for business.) headquarters in Midland, TX.
Corrosion was an issue but, the CAF move to Midland was the result of these two things: 1) Harlingen city fathers got greedy and wanted to significantly raise the rent at the airport. CAF (still the Confederate AF back then) said 'no way, we bring in too much money for you to do this to us. Back off or we'll move." And 2) Not enough easily acquirable real estate at the Harlingen location to implement the American Air Power Museum plan that CAF needed/wanted to do.

Several cities stepped up to the plate with significant incentives but Midland had the best deal. CAF moved there, the rest is history.

In the mid 1980s, my stepmother was the individual who told CAF general staff one day that if they ever expected to be on the receiving end of any significant grant money, CAF better get with the times by looking and acting more like a museum and less like a flying club for 'good 'ol boys.' The move to Midland (or maybe away from Harlingen) was partly a result of that confrontation.

She remained a close friend and adviser to the CAF for years after that meeting.

Sidebar:
As a result of her and Dad's involvement with CAF and later LSFM, I was fortunate enough to get 20 minutes one afternoon in the nose of LSFM's B-17 "Thunderbird" while we flew over Galveston.

The men who flew in those aircraft were, without a doubt, very brave. There's NOTHING between you and the enemy but a thin piece of aluminum and some plexiglas.
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Last edited by R Leo; 05-16-2010 at 01:31 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:45 PM
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I saw the B17 "Sentimental Journey" flying out of Falcon Field in Mesa back in 93. It was an awesome sight, and sound.

An uncle of mine was a Hurricane pilot with the South African Airforce in North Africa during WWII agianst the Germans and Itallians. Then he joined the RAF and flew Spirfires agains the Jappanese in Burma. I have a fascinating letter he wrote to a girlfriend about his Burma experiences. Certianly was an "interesting" experience.

- Peter.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:56 PM
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Kee Bird was in northern Greenland.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird

What I didn't know was that Kee Bird was lost in a post WWII spy mission.
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2010, 02:36 PM
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Ok. It’s been awhile. Greenland it is. Not sure why I was thinking AK.
I do recall they beat the snot out of (If that’s actually possible.) an old DeHavilland DHC4 Caribou during the recovery attempt.
I did know it was lost during a cold war maneuver in the 50’s, so between us, we’ll have the story down.

Now that you mention it. I do recall there being some level of discussion over rent down in Harlingon. That was back when our war bird collection was just a PT17 and a Cessna T41.
We of the small private ownerships tend not to mingle with that "big boy club".

Wasnt there a P38 (Glacier Girl) pulled from up that way as well?
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2010, 02:45 PM
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There are 3 guys in this area that have WWII fighters and in the summer they fly over in formation. There are a lot of small plans in the area but you can tell with out seeing them when the fighters are in the area, what a sound.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2010, 03:06 PM
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Certianly was an "interesting" experience.

- Peter.
Closest I think I’ll ever feel to living in those days:

We had the -51 down in Daytona Beech for an alumni gathering at ERAU a few years back.

On the flight home, Darby was asleep in the back seat. The sun had just set, visibility began to drop. Could have been anywhere. Neither of us had said a word for nearly an hour, so I felt rather alone.

Apparently, she had woken up without telling me and decided to play some music from her iPod into the intercom system.

To the dreary roar of the engine/prop came the original Nat King Cole, Straighten Up and Fly Right.

I can't describe all the emotions of that moment. But, I can tell you I’ve never had goose bumps like that in my entire life.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2010, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil View Post
There are 3 guys in this area that have WWII fighters and in the summer they fly over in formation. There are a lot of small plans in the area but you can tell with out seeing them when the fighters are in the area, what a sound.
We know of a -51 owner in Healdsburg. Might be one of them.

I’m thinking there are a few more than just three of them out that way though.
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2010, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WVOtoGO View Post
Ok. It’s been awhile. Greenland it is. Not sure why I was thinking AK.
The Wikipedia article says that Kee Bird deployed out of Ladd Army Airfield near Fairbanks, AK. Probably was mentioned in the PBS video.

Rent at Harlingen was a big deal but was basically used as the political lightning rod to divert attention from the fact that CAF was fundamentally violating the public trust through the way they administered their NPO status.

Another issue at the time, was that CAF was 'archiving' all factory maintenance documents for those warbirds in a large closet in the hanger. Possibly the only extant documentation for some aircraft was on shelves in an unairconditioned, non-climate controlled space less than 75 miles from the Gulf of Mexico (humidity, mold you name it...all bad for paper) and being used by maintenance personnel on a daily basis!!!
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by WVOtoGO View Post
Very understandable.
So many movies, etc have glorified the American aviator role in WWII. But, when you start crunching the numbers and talking to those who were actually there, fear horror and death supercede anything glorious about it.

By “wish I was there”, I mean in that era of aviation. Were pilots were actually true aviators.

If I could choose an MOS in WWII, I think I’d lean toward fighter/escort pilot. But even that was full of horrific moments.

I’ve flown quite a few mock dogfights with our -51 against some pretty good pilots in the past.
Not one did I get out of the aircraft not covered in sweat. Having someone on your tail that you must shake or “die” is quite an adrenaline rush as well as nerve racking experience without the bullets. It almost makes you sick. I can’t imagine playing that game for real.
I think I saw something that it was far safer to be a ground pounder than anything aviation in WW2. Also, if you look at anything on the B-29 operations in the Pacific, there were a lot of casualities from just taking off and landing.
I think there were 3 or 4 P-38 Lightnings pulled up from the ice in Greenland about 10 years ago. I think one of them was restored in KY. There was also a B-17 under the ice with them. The B-17 didn't have as much value so they left it there. From what I read, they had to disassemble them into small parts, then riase them up a shaft.
An R/C club I belong to had a speaker who flew B-17's in England. They basically had to take off, then circle up to altitude. Then get into formation. I think he said it was that there were a lot of airbases in each county. So, airpace was tight.
Also, there was only two flyable Zeors left, at least in the early 90's. The CAF one and one in Japan. I think there were a few that could be made flyable, and a few more were. Part of it is that it was easier or cheaper for a museum to make an airplane a static display. So they'd do the same thing as cash for clunkers and freeze up the engine.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 05-17-2010, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pj67coll View Post
I saw the B17 "Sentimental Journey" flying out of Falcon Field in Mesa back in 93. It was an awesome sight, and sound.

An uncle of mine was a Hurricane pilot with the South African Airforce in North Africa during WWII agianst the Germans and Itallians. Then he joined the RAF and flew Spirfires agains the Jappanese in Burma. I have a fascinating letter he wrote to a girlfriend about his Burma experiences. Certianly was an "interesting" experience.

- Peter.
About 15 years ago, I did a walk through on the CAF's TEXAS RAIDERS. I was sad some years later the see that the FAA (?) had grounded her. Now I am glad to see that she is fully restored and back in the air. Two thumbs up to the CAF for getting her back in blue skies.
http://www.gulfcoastwing.org/GCW/B-17_Schedule.htm

Two years ago I took a flight in the Collings Foundation "Nine-O-Nine." Just Awesome! Immaculate ship. Not a drop of oil leaking from any engine. Worth every penny.

The 909 didn't see combat action in WWII, but an interesting history of being subjected to 3 nuclear bomb tests and then going through a 13 year cool down period. Her namesake, the original Nine-O-Nine flew 140 combat missions in WWII.
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/tour_b-17g_hist.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvuChgh4fGg
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  #27  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:38 AM
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"As for the Zero retros. There was a joint there that did replica conversions (used T6s), just as there was a place at Meacham Field, Ft. Worth that was making replica BF-109s (from scratch !). Not sure how/if either is doing at this time."

when I was stationed at Ft Worth, I was part of a team that did airworthiness inspections on the retro Zeros. Great workmanship, I think I recall that they were the Army version, ie land based, don't remember what the differences were other than the tail hook.
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  #28  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:44 PM
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Toldja'll that Japanese Zeros were being manufactured and flown over DFW.
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  #29  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Toldja'll that Japanese Zeros were being manufactured and flown over DFW.
yup, right there at Mecham Field
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  #30  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:06 PM
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Watch "Catch-22" after watching "12 O'Clock High"

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