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-   -   Repeal Healthcare bill? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=286810)

chilcutt 10-19-2010 10:52 PM
Americans lost their right to be free of Governmental control the Moment they were given a Social Security number.

mgburg 10-20-2010 02:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2568023)
Yup, and my kids even want to be fed on a regular basis; kids today! ... When I was 3 and a half, I had five paper routes and then I had to go to work in a coal mine. ... Get off my lawn!
And you had to walk to that coal mine...uphill, 5 miles, no shoes in freezing rain (acid, if you please), both ways, two times a day!!! :eek: :rolleyes: :D

soothappens 10-20-2010 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 450slcguy (Post 2568186)
Talk to your elder relatives and the 50+ million senior citizens who contributed to SS their whole life and are now are reaping the benefits of that program. I'm pretty sure most will rebuke your claims of "stolen money".

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Given the greed and selfishness I see amongst many, I'm not certain they'd open up their homes and support their elderly parents/relatives. That's what families did before SS, and still do in nations that have no social benefits. Tell me, ARE YOU WILLING TO THAT in lieu of paying SS?
I remember that show!
The Walton's

Only problem with that is it takes to long to say good night.

As for the college thing..... "pizzas don't deliver themselves"

On the politics I agree with Craig ..used to get pissed now its just amusing!
Sad but amusing!!

75Sv1 10-20-2010 10:58 AM
I think to a large extent, the problem is the Health Care system does not compete. It is sort of like the military, cost isn't the primary objective. To much waste, extra procedures or exams to cover liability. Inventory not controlled.
Tom

thayer 10-20-2010 11:25 AM
Greed seems to be the ultimate power we must contend with. People are going to do things that get them the most value with the least amount of work. That seems true of both Goverment and the private sector. We have to walk a balanced line between fairness and protection of the economic forces that make the country so successful. Right now it seems its erring on the side of fairness, which appears to be hurting the economic forces.

The pendulum will swing back and forth, but it is clearly moving forward alot more than back. The progressives attempt to change things and the conservatives attempt to keep them the same. There is nothing exciting about keeping things the same, which is why it always seems to swing a little more to change.

Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country

Never ever ever ever give up

buffa98 10-20-2010 02:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 450slcguy (Post 2568186)
Talk to your elder relatives and the 50+ million senior citizens who contributed to SS their whole life and are now are reaping the benefits of that program. I'm pretty sure most will rebuke your claims of "stolen money".

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Given the greed and selfishness I see amongst many, I'm not certain they'd open up their homes and support their elderly parents/relatives. That's what families did before SS, and still do in nations that have no social benefits. Tell me, ARE YOU WILLING TO THAT in lieu of paying SS?
\

BUT_ the peoplethat are getting the SS benfits now are NOT GETTING BACK THE MONEY THEY PAID IN,
They are getting back the monet thawe are paying now. The whole theory behind SS was it was designed to help SECURE you golden years, Not fund them entirely.

OH an by the way it is 13.8% of your income. 6.4% taking from you 6.4% funded by your employer.

As a former employer the amount of revenue you can make me comes into play for your hourly wage. I and all the other employer must figure out what you as the employee are going to cost us before we can hire you.


Now before this goes to long absolutely I am will to de fund the whole SS administration if and only if it went back to to the original design.

Last point how many people die before reaching 62,5 years and never see a dime of the SS that was taken from them????? I can think of a few. Most of them with the same last name as me:(. So If pay into a system for the next 30 years till I am allowed to retire and fall over dead the next day can my estate get a refund on the money that big brother STOLE in the name of MY golden years?? HELL NO! People need to look back at the depression generation to take a few lessons on how to live. If you don't have the cash for it you cant afford it. The only person you should depend on to take care of you is you not some over-payed A!@#HOLE in a suit in DC promising to give you $250 stimulus check because you did not get a COLA this year(But you can bet your behind they got there COLA)\\

OK rant over:rolleyes:

buffa98 10-20-2010 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandYaghtLover (Post 2568238)
Thank you. And thats my point. If you have a problem with a national healthcare plan, you need to ask WHY we need one at all?

We dont

Simple, most Americans cant afford healthcare coverage!

Can you personally find 100 people that "cant afford" health care?(my guess is no), or simply "CHOOSE NOT TO PAY FOR IT"

Then you ask why is that? Look at the surgeons, look at the hospitals that charge $20 for a gauss (sp?) pad. Or $60,000 for a "routine" appendix removal. Actual price there, friend just had it and had no insurance.

Because a lot of hospitals in high Illegal immigrant areas are being sucked dry due to the Illegals using the er for every stubbed toe and sniffle

Than ask why do these things cost so much? Happens when insurance companies blindly pay and dont say "Hey Mr. Hospital! Thats too much, we are not paying!!!".


And then you ask who "owns" the hospital "industry".

A lot of hospitals are being run as a for profit business( Imagine that some group shelling out ten of millions of their dollars to build a hospital and actually expecting to get a return on their investment heartless capitalist bastards!!)

Ah, interesting little circle there. Actually, not a circle, but a money making industry that pays itself! And its controlled by private companies!
Then you could always go to medical school and fix your self could you not?

MTI 10-20-2010 03:00 PM
Where would anyone get the notion that the Social Security, particularly FICA withholdings are akin to a personal IRA or other retirement account?

If you're looking for an analogy, FICA withholdings are much more like insurance premiums. Which does raise the issue of a "means" based distribution system if the "insurance" being purchased is to prevent poverty when one retires.

MS Fowler 10-20-2010 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI (Post 2568656)
Where would anyone get the notion that the Social Security, particularly FICA withholdings are akin to a personal IRA or other retirement account?

If you're looking for an analogy, FICA withholdings are much more like insurance premiums. Which does raise the issue of a "means" based distribution system if the "insurance" being purchased is to prevent poverty when one retires.
Because the dems have sold SS to the people over the years as if it were a retirement pension.

MTI 10-20-2010 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 2568690)
Because the dems have sold SS to the people over the years as if it were a retirement pension.
Frankly it is a form of pension, funded by through a government insurance policy. but I don't believe any poltical party has said that what you put in is what you get, which would be more like an annuity vehicle such as an IRA account. The history of Social Security, both legislatively and legally, has been quite the opposite, since benefits can easily exceed contributions depending on one's longevity and likewise, survivor benefits can also exceed participant contributions. It's never been touted as a "savings" account.

Is there some particular Democrat that has made a contrary assertion?

Honus 10-20-2010 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buffa98 (Post 2568643)
...Last point how many people die before reaching 62,5 years and never see a dime of the SS that was taken from them????? I can think of a few. Most of them with the same last name as me:(. ...
While I am sorry to hear about your relatives' misfortune, they are the ones who make SS work. The whole system depends on having some percentage of people pay in more than they get back. It is socialism, pure and simple. It is also, IMHO, among the greatest achievements of any government in history. It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match. It has kept countless Americans out of poverty. To me, SS is untouchable. Anyone who favors any sort of privatization will not get my vote.

MTI 10-20-2010 04:27 PM
Oh how we wish we could get back all the premiums we paid for medical, dental, vision, homeowners, auto or even those policies we buy on refridgerators and computers when we don't ever file a claim . . . sorry chumps, that's not how insurance works. Risk is spread out over a large base . . . however, unlike other insurance, Social Security is one of the few policies that eventually pays out regardless of whether you actually need the protection from poverty.

aklim 10-20-2010 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 2568704)
It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match.

It has kept countless Americans out of poverty.
Question: How did it achieve that? Did they consider all the costs or did they simply consider the office costs and not figure out all the congressional time expended on it, making the rules, etc, etc? Do they have to pursue fraud as diligently as say a private system or do they just raise taxes to cover it? As a private enterprise, I have to have money saved up for a "rainy day". Does SS? IIRC, there were 20+ workers to 1 retiree. Have they got a way to cope now that there is about 3+ working people to 1 retiree?

It has given them a fish but not taught them how to fish. I guess that is a great achievement. :rolleyes: Shouldn't Americans keep THEMSELVES out of poverty? It does keep the govt out of poverty since it is a slush fund they can tap from so that is an achievement. :rolleyes:

Honus 10-20-2010 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2568716)
Question: How did it achieve that? Did they consider all the costs or did they simply consider the office costs and not figure out all the congressional time expended on it, making the rules, etc, etc? Do they have to pursue fraud as diligently as say a private system or do they just raise taxes to cover it?...
Dunno.
Quote:
...It has given them a fish but not taught them how to fish. I guess that is a great achievement. :rolleyes: Shouldn't Americans keep THEMSELVES out of poverty? It does keep the govt out of poverty since it is a slush fund they can tap from so that is an achievement. :rolleyes:
IMHO, there is a simple answer to those comments - Without social security, we have poverty. With it, we have less poverty. For cheap. What's not to like?

buffa98 10-20-2010 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 2568704)
While I am sorry to hear about your relatives' misfortune, they are the ones who make SS work. The whole system depends on having some percentage of people pay in more than they get back. It is socialism, pure and simple. It is also, IMHO, among the greatest achievements of any government in history. It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match. It has kept countless Americans out of poverty. To me, SS is untouchable. Anyone who favors any sort of privatization will not get my vote.
Thank you for the thoughts.

BUT when it was enacted there were 28(?) people working for every one person drawing. Now the ratio is closer to 4.5 to one. When the Baby boomer star to retire in droves 2011(at age 65) there will an even lower number. The system as designed does not work. My answer is let the people who are young enough let them opt out of the system(myself included) That way we would be responsible for our own retirement.


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