Repeal Healthcare bill? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

450slcguy · #1 10-19-2010, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffa98

I will make you a deal, If I get a refund of the money that has been stolen from me since I was 16 years old in the name of SS and never have to have any other moneys stolen from me in the name of for my own good then I will never cash a SS check(which has to be stolen from someone else)

Talk to your elder relatives and the 50+ million senior citizens who contributed to SS their whole life and are now are reaping the benefits of that program. I'm pretty sure most will rebuke your claims of "stolen money".

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Given the greed and selfishness I see amongst many, I'm not certain they'd open up their homes and support their elderly parents/relatives. That's what families did before SS, and still do in nations that have no social benefits. Tell me, ARE YOU WILLING TO THAT in lieu of paying SS?

LandYaghtLover · #2 10-19-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Thank you. And thats my point. If you have a problem with a national healthcare plan, you need to ask WHY we need one at all?

Simple, most Americans cant afford healthcare coverage!

Then you ask why is that? Look at the surgeons, look at the hospitals that charge $20 for a gauss (sp?) pad. Or $60,000 for a "routine" appendix removal. Actual price there, friend just had it and had no insurance.

Than ask why do these things cost so much? Happens when insurance companies blindly pay and dont say "Hey Mr. Hospital! Thats too much, we are not paying!!!".

And then you ask who "owns" the hospital "industry".

Ah, interesting little circle there. Actually, not a circle, but a money making industry that pays itself! And its controlled by private companies!

buffa98 · #3 10-20-2010, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LandYaghtLover

Thank you. And thats my point. If you have a problem with a national healthcare plan, you need to ask WHY we need one at all?

We dont

Simple, most Americans cant afford healthcare coverage!

Can you personally find 100 people that "cant afford" health care?(my guess is no), or simply "CHOOSE NOT TO PAY FOR IT"

Then you ask why is that? Look at the surgeons, look at the hospitals that charge $20 for a gauss (sp?) pad. Or $60,000 for a "routine" appendix removal. Actual price there, friend just had it and had no insurance.

Because a lot of hospitals in high Illegal immigrant areas are being sucked dry due to the Illegals using the er for every stubbed toe and sniffle

Than ask why do these things cost so much? Happens when insurance companies blindly pay and dont say "Hey Mr. Hospital! Thats too much, we are not paying!!!".

And then you ask who "owns" the hospital "industry".

A lot of hospitals are being run as a for profit business( Imagine that some group shelling out ten of millions of their dollars to build a hospital and actually expecting to get a return on their investment heartless capitalist bastards!!)

Ah, interesting little circle there. Actually, not a circle, but a money making industry that pays itself! And its controlled by private companies!

Then you could always go to medical school and fix your self could you not?

soothappens · #4 10-20-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Talk to your elder relatives and the 50+ million senior citizens who contributed to SS their whole life and are now are reaping the benefits of that program. I'm pretty sure most will rebuke your claims of "stolen money".

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Given the greed and selfishness I see amongst many, I'm not certain they'd open up their homes and support their elderly parents/relatives. That's what families did before SS, and still do in nations that have no social benefits. Tell me, ARE YOU WILLING TO THAT in lieu of paying SS?

I remember that show!
The Walton's

Only problem with that is it takes to long to say good night.

As for the college thing..... "pizzas don't deliver themselves"

On the politics I agree with Craig ..used to get pissed now its just amusing!
Sad but amusing!!

75Sv1 · #5 10-20-2010, 10:58 AM

I think to a large extent, the problem is the Health Care system does not compete. It is sort of like the military, cost isn't the primary objective. To much waste, extra procedures or exams to cover liability. Inventory not controlled.
Tom

buffa98 · #6 10-20-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Talk to your elder relatives and the 50+ million senior citizens who contributed to SS their whole life and are now are reaping the benefits of that program. I'm pretty sure most will rebuke your claims of "stolen money".

Personally, I kinda like the fact that for the most part we don't have 10's of millions of elderly senior citizens starving to death living in the streets. Well worth the 6% contribution we all make.

Given the greed and selfishness I see amongst many, I'm not certain they'd open up their homes and support their elderly parents/relatives. That's what families did before SS, and still do in nations that have no social benefits. Tell me, ARE YOU WILLING TO THAT in lieu of paying SS?

\

BUT_ the peoplethat are getting the SS benfits now are NOT GETTING BACK THE MONEY THEY PAID IN,
They are getting back the monet thawe are paying now. The whole theory behind SS was it was designed to help SECURE you golden years, Not fund them entirely.

OH an by the way it is 13.8% of your income. 6.4% taking from you 6.4% funded by your employer.

As a former employer the amount of revenue you can make me comes into play for your hourly wage. I and all the other employer must figure out what you as the employee are going to cost us before we can hire you.

Now before this goes to long absolutely I am will to de fund the whole SS administration if and only if it went back to to the original design.

Last point how many people die before reaching 62,5 years and never see a dime of the SS that was taken from them????? I can think of a few. Most of them with the same last name as me

. So If pay into a system for the next 30 years till I am allowed to retire and fall over dead the next day can my estate get a refund on the money that big brother STOLE in the name of MY golden years?? HELL NO! People need to look back at the depression generation to take a few lessons on how to live. If you don't have the cash for it you cant afford it. The only person you should depend on to take care of you is you not some over-payed A!@#HOLE in a suit in DC promising to give you $250 stimulus check because you did not get a COLA this year(But you can bet your behind they got there COLA)\\

OK rant over

Honus · #7 10-20-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffa98

...Last point how many people die before reaching 62,5 years and never see a dime of the SS that was taken from them????? I can think of a few. Most of them with the same last name as me

. ...

While I am sorry to hear about your relatives' misfortune, they are the ones who make SS work. The whole system depends on having some percentage of people pay in more than they get back. It is socialism, pure and simple. It is also, IMHO, among the greatest achievements of any government in history. It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match. It has kept countless Americans out of poverty. To me, SS is untouchable. Anyone who favors any sort of privatization will not get my vote.

aklim · #8 10-20-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match.

It has kept countless Americans out of poverty.

Question: How did it achieve that? Did they consider all the costs or did they simply consider the office costs and not figure out all the congressional time expended on it, making the rules, etc, etc? Do they have to pursue fraud as diligently as say a private system or do they just raise taxes to cover it? As a private enterprise, I have to have money saved up for a "rainy day". Does SS? IIRC, there were 20+ workers to 1 retiree. Have they got a way to cope now that there is about 3+ working people to 1 retiree?

It has given them a fish but not taught them how to fish. I guess that is a great achievement.

Shouldn't Americans keep THEMSELVES out of poverty? It does keep the govt out of poverty since it is a slush fund they can tap from so that is an achievement.

Honus · #9 10-20-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Question: How did it achieve that? Did they consider all the costs or did they simply consider the office costs and not figure out all the congressional time expended on it, making the rules, etc, etc? Do they have to pursue fraud as diligently as say a private system or do they just raise taxes to cover it?...

Dunno.

Quote:

...It has given them a fish but not taught them how to fish. I guess that is a great achievement.

Shouldn't Americans keep THEMSELVES out of poverty? It does keep the govt out of poverty since it is a slush fund they can tap from so that is an achievement.

IMHO, there is a simple answer to those comments - Without social security, we have poverty. With it, we have less poverty. For cheap. What's not to like?

aklim · #10 10-20-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

Dunno.

IMHO, there is a simple answer to those comments - Without social security, we have poverty. With it, we have less poverty.

For cheap. What's not to like?

But you said????

Inaccurate. Without SS, we MIGHT have more poverty. With it, we MIGHT have less poverty. I can bench press 5000# and I can prove it. I just needs some "help". Morphine does NOT take away the cause for pain. It numbs the pain. That is exactly what SS does. It masks the poverty. It doesn't take it away.

There you go again. Unsubstantiated. You don't even know how it came about to be that efficient.

Honus · #11 10-20-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

...There you go again. Unsubstantiated...

Goodbye.

buffa98 · #12 10-20-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

While I am sorry to hear about your relatives' misfortune, they are the ones who make SS work. The whole system depends on having some percentage of people pay in more than they get back. It is socialism, pure and simple. It is also, IMHO, among the greatest achievements of any government in history. It is highly efficient, with much lower administrative costs than any private system could ever match. It has kept countless Americans out of poverty. To me, SS is untouchable. Anyone who favors any sort of privatization will not get my vote.

Thank you for the thoughts.

BUT when it was enacted there were 28(?) people working for every one person drawing. Now the ratio is closer to 4.5 to one. When the Baby boomer star to retire in droves 2011(at age 65) there will an even lower number. The system as designed does not work. My answer is let the people who are young enough let them opt out of the system(myself included) That way we would be responsible for our own retirement.

aklim · #13 10-20-2010, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffa98

Thank you for the thoughts.

BUT when it was enacted there were 28(?) people working for every one person drawing. Now the ratio is closer to 4.5 to one. When the Baby boomer star to retire in droves 2011(at age 65) there will an even lower number. The system as designed does not work. My answer is let the people who are young enough let them opt out of the system(myself included) That way we would be responsible for our own retirement.

Remember what happened with Madoff? When the pool of young suckers dried up, the old suckers bit the big one. Same with SS. If they let the youngsters like you off, what happens when the old ones of Ponzi Scheme claim money? Who pays into it? It is a Ponzi Scheme, is it not?

Honus · #14 10-20-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buffa98

Thank you for the thoughts.

BUT when it was enacted there were 28(?) people working for every one person drawing. Now the ratio is closer to 4.5 to one. When the Baby boomer star to retire in droves 2011(at age 65) there will an even lower number. The system as designed does not work. My answer is let the people who are young enough let them opt out of the system(myself included) That way we would be responsible for our own retirement.

I'm no economist, but it seems to me that SS has been clicking along for 70+ years without missing a beat. It needs adjustments to keep itself solvent, but I don't think we should scrap it.

One problem with letting people be responsible for their own retirement is that many people just won't do it. What do we do with them? Let them starve out in the street?

kknudson · #15 10-20-2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honus

I'm no economist, but it seems to me that SS has been clicking along for 70+ years without missing a beat. It needs adjustments to keep itself solvent, but I don't think we should scrap it.

You do understand there isn't one thin dime in the SS trust fund.
Our great leaders have spent it willy nilly.

More was coming in than going out, so out leaders spent that too.

Now the day is coming when there won't be enough coming in to cover whats going out so they'll have to start taking money out of the trust fund to make up the difference.
Oh wait, there's nothing in there, my oh my what will we do ??

Funny a corporation must have reserves to pay it's pension obligations, ah but this is the government.