Why Are You Religious, or non/anti-Religious? - Page 29 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Daman858 · #**421** 01-21-2011, 01:52 PM

I am a believing Christian. I am because I am scared that the religious folks just might be right. Not sayin' they are, but just in case.

Txjake · #**422** 01-21-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

The answer is very simple. You read it, you decide. You can accept the THOUGHT that Jesus died for your sins, or you can "poo-poo" the THOUGHT. No one is holding you hostage. No one is holding a gun to your head. AAMOF, no one is asking that you read any of this and requiring you to respond.

And that's the beauty of understanding what TRUE Christianity is about.

No church requirements.
No tithing requirements.
No brain-draining meetings to attend.
No waiting for the fat-choir lady to quit warbling.
No mamby-pamby voodoo ceremonies to sit through.
You associate with whomever you want.
You can go sit out in a cornfield and talk to the ears...or listen to 'em.
You can go to a church and put up with all the goofiness going on around you.

Or? You decide.

The only requirement?

Believe that He died for You to keep you from an eternity in Hell.

There's your string.

more rational analysis....

#**423** 01-21-2011, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

That is what I suspected. I believe that is the churches were as adamant about divorce as they are about gay marriage, they would loose half of their customers and as Aklim always said, it's about the money. They need the dues to keep in business and if they loose half of their customers, making ends meet will be quite a but more of a challenge.

This is yet another reason I have no interest in organized religion.

Of course it's a scam, unfortunately it's a scam with constitutional protection.

Skid Row Joe · #**424** 01-21-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman858

I am a believing Christian. I am because I am scared that the religious folks just might be right. Not sayin' they are, but just in case.

That's the spirit, Brother!

aklim · #**425** 01-21-2011, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daman858

I am a believing Christian. I am because I am scared that the religious folks just might be right. Not sayin' they are, but just in case.

Must be some dumb deity if it cannot discern that you are "buying insurance" like in a blackjack game. If so, is that deity worth a damn? If not, you are still screwed.

Botnst · #**426** 01-21-2011, 05:32 PM

Aassume that the God is creator of the universe, omniscient, omnipresent. Capable of not merely defying physical laws but of creting nd abridging them.

Why would one suppose that such an entity would be possessed any human attributes? That's a conceit borne of desperate, fearful anthropomorphism.

Or to put it in the context of Genesis: Man was created in His image, not the reverse.

aklim · #**427** 01-21-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Aassume that the God is creator of the universe, omniscient, omnipresent. Capable of not merely defying physical laws but of creting nd abridging them.

Why would one suppose that such an entity would be possessed any human attributes? That's a conceit borne of desperate, fearful anthropomorphism.

Or to put it in the context of Genesis: Man was created in His image, not the reverse.

If you go along that line, you still have to admit to similarities. After all, a photocopy is not 100% but damn close to it.

Botnst · #**428** 01-21-2011, 05:46 PM

That's not an unreasonable argument because the media are so similar.

Would you suggest that God and man are composed of the same media? If so, God should be amenable to a scientific test of it's existence. I suspect, but cannot prove, that if there is a God that it's existence is totally and completely and truly out of this world. It exists apart from reality, outside of reality.

Perhaps a more accurate metaphor would be a photograph of an apple. In that case, the image and original are similar only if one has the sight necessary to see the similarities.

This discussion reminds me of Plato's allegory of the cave.

kerry · #**429** 01-21-2011, 05:57 PM

If that's the case, then the major problem Plato and his children face is the fact that the refer to God as Good. Might as well be Evil. No reason to prefer one over the other or as our Indian friends put it, God is beyond Good and Evil.

cmac2012 · #**430** 01-21-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

I consider myself religious, and as a creature of habit, I embrace my religion.

I bought into what I was exposed to as a youth, so, yes, I think I am religious.

It gives me great consolation, in having those thoughts and feelings.

None of which can I prove or disprove, BTW.......

I don't think religious belief based on lifelong habit is the best. When Jesus said 'you must die and be reborn as children' (approx.) I think he meant that one must shed one's prior beliefs and look at things with the fresh gaze of a child.

Also Jesus went through some rather extreme sort of vision-quest like efforts - 40 day fast - in search of understanding.

aklim · #**431** 01-21-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Would you suggest that God and man are composed of the same media? If so, God should be amenable to a scientific test of it's existence. I suspect, but cannot prove, that if there is a God that it's existence is totally and completely and truly out of this world. It exists apart from reality, outside of reality.

Assuming there is a god and assuming he made us in the same image, there is nothing to say the media must be different or the same. Maybe it is like the Chinese Kung Fu shows where the master teaches the disciple many things but saves the last few things for himself. Might be why the Tower of Babel came about. To deny man the ability or at least slow him down from his progress.

No god in all the world's religions has ever be amenable to a scientific test of it's existence. Otherwise the mystery would be gone.

aklim · #**432** 01-21-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I don't think religious belief based on lifelong habit is the best. When Jesus said 'you must die and be reborn as children' (approx.) I think he meant that one must shed one's prior beliefs and look at things with the fresh gaze of a child.

Also Jesus went through some rather extreme sort of vision-quest like efforts - 40 day fast - in search of understanding.

The naive gaze perhaps? So it is more amenable to being manuplated the way the belief wants? Know of many religious beliefs that want a constant challenge? A kid believes in Santa because he goes to bed and the tree is empty. Comes down in the AM, the tree is full of goodies. Since Mom & Dad didn't do it, well, that kinda leaves Santa. Kid doesn't have the capacity to ask more.

Allegedly. Question. If he did, considering the healthcare system then, could he have survived 40 days? If he didn't, that thing is a lie. If he did survive and thrived, perhaps he either cheated or he isn't really human. If it is the former, he is a fraud. If it is the latter, he isn't really human so he might be setting an impossible example since he definitely isn't human.

Who knows. Maybe the wife is right and I have Aspergers and I can't see these sort of things. It would explain why I always questioned the Fairy Tales I was read since I didn't believe the trees could talk.

tonkovich · #**433** 01-21-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

That's not an unreasonable argument because the media are so similar.

Would you suggest that God and man are composed of the same media? If so, God should be amenable to a scientific test of it's existence. I suspect, but cannot prove, that if there is a God that it's existence is totally and completely and truly out of this world. It exists apart from reality, outside of reality.

Perhaps a more accurate metaphor would be a photograph of an apple. In that case, the image and original are similar only if one has the sight necessary to see the similarities.

This discussion reminds me of Plato's allegory of the cave.

oh does it ever. and the usual suspects are extolling the virtues of the shadows. their own particular "understanding", as it were. but please, enlighten us.

Botnst · #**434** 01-21-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

If that's the case, then the major problem Plato and his children face is the fact that the refer to God as Good. Might as well be Evil. No reason to prefer one over the other or as our Indian friends put it, God is beyond Good and Evil.

Hmm, that's an interesting argument. But again, it's using a human construction, in this case the definition of "Good". I think God defined "Good" through his existence (St John's "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.") And through the act of creation (Genesis: 1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. )

In both cases, man is himself, absent from the definitional stages. Thus, "Good" existed before man. Therefore, our befuddlement in understanding how bad things happen to good people (and the reverse) is a problem of being stuck in the human condition.

This is also argued metaphorically throughout the Book of Job.

This is an interesting divergence from the Hindu belief as you have outlined it. In the Judeo-Christian (and I presume, Muslim) case as I have argued, God is Good. Goodness is an essential attribute of God. In the Hindu case, "Good" is a human illusion or membrane which God (god, gods, whatever) has transcended.

This is a really interesting discussion. I wish I knew more about comparative religious philosophy, if there is such a field. Is that what theology is?

cmac2012 · #**435** 01-21-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

The naive gaze perhaps? So it is more amenable to being manuplated the way the belief wants? Know of many religious beliefs that want a constant challenge? A kid believes in Santa because he goes to bed and the tree is empty. Comes down in the AM, the tree is full of goodies. Since Mom & Dad didn't do it, well, that kinda leaves Santa. Kid doesn't have the capacity to ask more.

Allegedly. Question. If he did, considering the healthcare system then, could he have survived 40 days? If he didn't, that thing is a lie. If he did survive and thrived, perhaps he either cheated or he isn't really human. If it is the former, he is a fraud. If it is the latter, he isn't really human so he might be setting an impossible example since he definitely isn't human.

Who knows. Maybe the wife is right and I have Aspergers and I can't see these sort of things. It would explain why I always questioned the Fairy Tales I was read since I didn't believe the trees could talk.

Wow. A dyed in wool cynic. Children are more naive than adults in some ways and more insightful in others. At least that's my observation.

Many people have survived fasts of forty days. Allegedly. Who knows the exact duration? I like the bible but I don't assert that ev-very word is the revealed word of Ghod-duh!