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#31 01-17-2011, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

What exactly do you mean by "added value"? Added value to what? To some CEO's corporate balance sheet? What good does that do a thousand unemployed? Why should I give a rats ass if the Iphone costs fifty bucks more by being made in the US? If I have a job, so I can buy it, should I wish to have it, I'd be far happier than if I have no job and thus can't afford it, should I actually want it, even if it's made for fifty bucks less in China.

- Peter.

I understand that you don't care, but the market does care. Jobs will go to the most cost effective labor market. I doesn't really matter if you like it of not, but that's the reality of a free market.

All kidding aside, all this whining and hand wringing accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you want to worry about something useful, figure out how to get the next generation of americans educated in areas that will actually be competitive in this century.

LaRondo · #32 01-17-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Like most people, I "hate" any meaningful accusations. I have no agenda, except I think pointless panic is ..... well, pointless.

If you don't have an agenda, you should very much leverage your comprehesion to a point where you actually engage into a discussion about a given topics, rather then elevating yourself above those who like to address the topic from a more sincere point of view.
I don't see anybody panicing, but I do see a lot of "wisecracking" coming from your direction.

LaRondo · #33 01-17-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I understand that you don't care, but the market does care. Jobs will go to the most cost effective labor market. I doesn't really matter if you like it of not, but that's the reality of a free market.

All kidding aside, all this whining and hand wringing accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you want to worry about something useful, figure out how to get the next generation of americans educated in areas that will actually be competitive in this century.

I am sorry, but I don't see you delivering particular contribution to educational standards, whatsoever. Maybe you can elaborate.

#34 01-17-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

If you don't have an agenda, you should very much leverage your comprehesion to a point where you actually engage into a discussion about a given topics, rather then elevating yourself above those who like to address the topic from a more sincere point of view.
I don't see anybody panicing, but I do see a lot of "wisecracking" coming from your direction.

Yes, I'm making fun of this thread. Sorry, but I have trouble taking these concerns very seriously. Most of this simply translates into someone saying, "I'm afraid of the future."

Things change, some peoples' skills become irrelevant and they have to learn new skills. Some folks will adopt to change, some will not. Most people will figure out how to make it work for them. Things have changed for every past generation, and things will continue to change in the future.

Personally, I would love to be 20 years old again in this environment, there will be enormous opportunities over the next 20 - 30 years. I hope I'm around long enough to get to play these new games.

#35 01-17-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

I am sorry, but I don't see you delivering particular contribution to educational standards, whatsoever. Maybe you can elaborate.

I used to teach an under grad engineering class, does that count?

I hope I do contribute some knowledge to the young folks I work with, but most of them are very bright and won't need much help from anyone to do very well. What I am "concerned" about is the fact that only something like 30 percent of americans have a four year college degree, that needs to improved if the US intends to maintain it's current standard of living in a "knowledge based economy." Other societies that put more value on education are likely to do better in this environment.

okyoureabeast · #36 01-17-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

Whether these changes are good or bad depends in part on how we adapt to them. But, ready or not, here they come:
1. The Post Office. Get ready to imagine a world without the post office. They are so deeply in financial trouble that there is probably no way to sustain it long term. Email, Fed Ex, and UPS have just about wiped out the minimum revenue needed to keep the post office alive. Most of your mail every day is junk mail and bills. Not so sure about this one, but until the monopoly on first class mail is lifted the post office will always be there.

2. The Check. Britain is already laying the groundwork to do away with checks by 2018. It costs the financial system billions of dollars a year to process checks. Plastic cards and online transactions will lead to the eventual demise of the check. This plays right into the death of the post office. If you never paid your bills by mail and never received them by mail, the post office would absolutely go out of business. This won't happen in the US until credit card processors start enforcing their rules for no credit card minimums. This is my biggest complaint as small businesses and bars are the worst offenders. Processing fees should be contingent on the size of a business.

3 The Newspaper. The younger generation simply doesn't read the newspaper. They certainly don't subscribe to a daily delivered print edition. That may go the way of the milkman and the laundry man. As for reading the paper online, get ready to pay for it. The rise in mobile Internet devices and e-readers has caused all the newspaper and magazine publishers to form an alliance. They have met with Apple, Amazon, and the major cell phone companies to develop a model for paid subscription services. Sad but true. I occasionally will read a paper that has been left out, but I won't actively waste money on a subscription. I have other things to spend my money on.

4. The Book. You say you will never give up the physical book that you hold in your hand and turn the literal pages. I said the same thing about downloading music from iTunes. I wanted my hard copy CD. But I quickly changed my mind when I discovered that I could get albums for half the price without ever leaving home to get the latest music. The same thing will happen with books. You can browse a bookstore online and even read a preview chapter before you buy. And the price is less than half that of a real book. And think of the convenience! Once you start flicking your fingers on the screen instead of the book, you find that you are lost in the story, can't wait to see what happens next, and you forget that you're holding a gadget instead of a book. Ehh I kinda disagree. Until electronic e-readers are cheap as in 30-40$ I won't buy one. I don't like how Amazon can yank my books out of my personal library after I bought them (1984 anyone?) and i'll hold out as long as I can.

5. The Land Line Telephone. Unless you have a large family and make a lot of local calls, you don't need it anymore. Most people keep it simply because they've always had it. But you are paying double charges for that extra service. All the cell phone companies will let you call customers using the same cell provider for no charge against your minutes . Agreed. However cell phone fees are crazy depending on your state.

So what happens when the debt bubble pops?

It won't and there isn't a bubble. Money has no value and no one will be calling in our debts.

X2 with Kerry. The US isn't the greatest nation in the world and we shouldn't fool ourselves into thinking we are. Every country has its perks and its faults. America is no different.

anthonyb · #37 01-17-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

What exactly do you mean by "added value"? Added value to what? To some CEO's corporate balance sheet? What good does that do a thousand unemployed? Why should I give a rats ass if the Iphone costs fifty bucks more by being made in the US? If I have a job, so I can buy it, should I wish to have it, I'd be far happier than if I have no job and thus can't afford it, should I actually want it, even if it's made for fifty bucks less in China.

- Peter.

The economics of making cell phones (or in fact most consumer goods) in the United States are completely unsustainable. If you have two identical products for sale, but one is $50 more, which do you think the average consumer is going to buy? 95% of the time, it will be the cheaper one, even if the most expensive one is made in the US. This is the exact economic model that has made Walmart, Amazon, Target, etc ad nauseum multibillion dollar corporations.

America is at a huge competitive disadvantage when it comes to manufacturing consumer goods. We have no business competing with countries where the cost of living is 10% of what it is here. We should be spending our efforts on investing in areas where our technological/scientific knowledge base and Capitol markets give us tremendous advantages over developing countries: developing and designing next generation technologies, not manufacturing last generation commodities.

In other words, we need to be designing iPhones, not making them.

tonkovich · #38 01-17-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I understand that you don't care, but the market does care. Jobs will go to the most cost effective labor market. I doesn't really matter if you like it of not, but that's the reality of a free market.

All kidding aside, all this whining and hand wringing accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you want to worry about something useful, figure out how to get the next generation of americans educated in areas that will actually be competitive in this century.

where exactly is this "free market"? i'd like to see an example of it.

pj67coll · #39 01-17-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Personally, I would love to be 20 years old again in this environment, there will be enormous opportunities over the next 20 - 30 years. I hope I'm around long enough to get to play these new games.

Like what exactly. You're always long on generalities, real short on specifics.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #40 01-17-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyb

In other words, we need to be designing iPhones, not making them.

I'm pretty sure we "are" designing iPhones. So what? The ten people who design the iPhone and get paid a ****load for doing so are no doubt very happy, but you know what? That doesn't make up for the ten thousand out of work because instead of manufacturing the thing the other ten designed, they are "let go" so that ten thousand can replace them for pennies on the dollar in china. Yes, I understand that means a cheaper iPhone on sale in Walmart. So what? Nobody has any job's with which to buy them.

People make fatuous remarks about preparing for the "knowledge economy" and the "new technologies". You know what, there IS NO KNOWLEDGE economy, and nobody has yet shown one of these magical new technologies that will revolutionize the future.

All that's happend is that the US middle class has been slammed, our jobs have gone to our compettitors, and those fortunate enough not to be affected, yet, get to pontificate about how the rest just need to wise up and adapt. But those are hollow sounds when you compare them to reality.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #41 01-17-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkovich

where exactly is this "free market"? i'd like to see an example of it.

Me too.

- Peter.

tonkovich · #42 01-17-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Me too.

- Peter.

it's just a mug's game, for the majority.

MBlovr · #43 01-17-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Most people do hate accusations of any kind. You seem to have a real twang on diverting and misrepresenting other poster's comments.
Your approach is condescending and ridiculing my statement, to say the least.
You seem to ride an agenda of some kind, either personal or otherwise premeditaded to undermine participants views regarding national economic concerns.

His agenda is See how smart I am the rest of you are comeplete dumba$$'s. And oh by the way see how great I am doing who gives a crap if the rest of the country is going down the tubes. I got mine. Pretty detestable I'd say.

I mean let's not focus on the fact that labor has been moved to places where workers have zero rights or protections. After all again what's in it for me right Craig? Who cares if ever corner is littered with guys standing in freezing weather looking for a handout. It's all gravy I got mine.

I will agree with you on one thing though and that is as long as the US working class allows themselves to be anethetized with football, and NASCAR there isn't much future.

elchivito · #44 01-17-2011, 10:46 PM

Unverified, unattributed forwarded emails. Yawn......

#45 01-17-2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Like what exactly. You're always long on generalities, real short on specifics.

- Peter.

Personally, I would probably be working on next generation nuke plants (because that's what I do) wherever they are being built, mostly in china at the moment. That would keep me amused for a few decades. I hope I will be around long enough to work on some in the US, but I have about 4 more years before I'll be able to really do international work.

If I was a money guy, I would be looking at the financing some of the big international deals that will do nothing but get bigger. International finance will be huge for the foreseeable future.

I can't even imagine what the computer, electronics, telecommunication fields will look like in 10 or 20 years, but I'm sure there will be amazing toys to be developed. That would be a blast if you are an electrical/computer type.

Medical technology is already amazing, I can't imagine where that will be in 10-20 years either. My daughter has a set of hearing aids that are very tiny, cost about $6000, pair with her computers and phone, and probably have more technology than our computers did 5 years ago. She wants to go into that field, I'm envious of the stuff she will be doing when I'm long gone.

Basic research in all the sciences will be another area that accelerates because of the tools that are available now and will be in the next few years. Compare what we "knew" in 1960 and compare it to today, them double that rate of change and imagine where we will be in 2060 (when I'm 102).

Energy has to do something drastic within the next generation, half the world us using 19th century energy sources and the other half is using early 20th century sources. I would love to be around to see the last coal fired power plant decommissioned.

Let's not forget transportation. Cars will probably evolve more in the next 50 years than the last, driven by computer, energy, and materials technologies. I don't know/care where they will be bolted together, but designing the will be a blast.

I only gave technical examples, because that's what I do. If you get a chance, ask the same question to an artist, or a performer, or a writer, or an athlete. Imagine what those folks will be able to do with the tools they will have.

Sorry not to participate in all the doom and gloom.