I know very bright scientists in a variety of life science subdisciplines who are religious: Muslim, Hindu, Christian. I know two biologists who are fundamentalists, which I used to find entertaining. They are good people and I know longer torment them.

I believe evolution is determined by a need required to survive, not one that makes it more convenient to survive. Dags have no need to talk, monkeys have no need to fly, cats do not need an opposable thumb. Certain humming birds developed a longer curved beak so that they could get the nectar in the flowers to survive. In humans the appendix has all but disappeared. We no longer have hair all over our bodies.... examples of evolution are all over. You just have to read about it and look.

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2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

You and I live in a timescale far shorter than evolution. We are nearly dx/dy of f(evolution). The inverse operation is hard to picture, but we know it exists.

Science does not have all the answers. They have more answers today than they did yesterday and will have more tomorrow than they do today. How ever just because the answer is not known, does not mean it did not happen. The fossil evidence indicates that it did. It is up to science vie scientific method to figure out why.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Actually its fairly easy to prove with carbon dating and such. The age of the earth etc, isn't really a theory at this point.

Most modern religions are less than 2k years old, which is nothing in geologic time.

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Not to be flip but look in the mirror. There are direct fossil records linking you to Lucy.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

For complex multicelluar organisms it's not possible to demonstrate (yet). The best you can hope for is an extensive logical chronosequence of many fossils.

One set of fossils makes us reasonably suspicious. that what we see is relatedness, not change over time. So we notice that some fossil sequences can be found in a series of geological beds. Each bed can be atomically aged by knowing the half-lives of various isotopes and their decomposition products. So for the fossil sequence to be arranged in a chronosequenced geological formation we have to suppose that the creature was able to burrow into the various formations without leaving indications of their burrows or we must assume the fossils were formed in situ, in a time-sequence.

Now multiply that by many, many thousands of different lineages of different plants and animals across numerous phyla. Patterns emerge. Paleontologists look for causes of patterns formed by multiple lineages. They use nuclear physics, chemistry, and geology to infer climate variation, volcanic episodes, and atmospheric changes taht correlate with patterns in fossil lineages.

What almost uniformly happens when there is a great burst of diversity and multiple new lineages or a sudden decimation or extinction of many lineages is some environmental factor. Thus, environment precipitates changes in the fossil lineages.

This is evolution through natural selection over geologic time. It isn't iron-clad causation. But it is the most parsimonious explanation that does not require a miracle. Since miracles are the perview of God and Religion, not science, scientists evaluate scientifically tractable problems.

Bald is not a hair color.

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Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Many excellent books have been published in recent years detailing scientific findings and conclusions that compellingly demonstrate the impossibility of evolution as an explanation for the existence of life on earth.

It is helpful to remember that evolution cannot offer an explanation for the origin of our magnificent universe; evolution seeks to explain only how life might have begun in a universe that already existed. If you would like to dig more deeply into the case against evolution, we recommend the following books, many written by people with backgrounds in the sciences:

• Darwin's Black Box. The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution, Michael Behe, associate professor of biochemistry; Lehigh University, Pennsylvania, 1996. Demonstrates that the tiny building blocks of life—cells and their myriad components—are far too complex for their codependent parts and processes to have evolved without an outside, intelligent design at work.

• Mere Creation: Science, Faith & Intelligent Design, edited by William Dembski, 1998. A collection of academic writings from the fields of physics, astrophysics, biology, anthropology, biology, mechanical engineering and mathematics that challenge Darwinism and offer evidence supporting intelligent design in the universe.

• Evolution: A Theory in Crisis, Michael Denton, senior research fellow, University of Otago, New Zealand, 1996. Examines features of the natural world that mutation and natural selection cannot explain and shows the impossibility of transitional forms required for Darwinist evolution to have taken place.

• Creation and Evolution: Rethinking the Evidence From Science and the Bible, Alan Hayward, 1985. Written by a British physicist, an insightful book on the pros and cons of the evolution vs. creation controversy.

• The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong, Francis Hitching, 1982. Points out many of the problems in the traditional view of evolution.

• Darwin on Trial, Phillip Johnson, professor of law, University of California, Berkeley, 1993. Examines scientific details that argue convincingly against the theory of evolution.

• Reason in the Balance: The Case Against Naturalism in Science, Law & Education, Phillip Johnson, 1995. Discusses the cultural implications of belief in evolution; that is, that the philosophy behind Darwinian evolution has become in effect the dominant established religion in many societies.

• Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds, Phillip Johnson, 1997. Written specifically for older students and their parents and teachers to prepare them for the antireligion bias inherent in most advanced education.

• Objections Sustained. Subversive Essays on Evolution, Law & Culture, Phillip Johnson, 1998. Compilation of essays ranging from evolution and culture to law and religion.

• Bones of Contention: A Creationist Assessment of the Human Fossils, Marvin Lubenow, 1992. Documents the serious problems with the supposed links between man and apes.

• What Is Creation Science? Henry Morris and Gary Parker, 1987. Two creation scientists provide a critical examination of the major arguments used to support evolution.

• Shattering the Myths of Darwinism, Richard Milton, 1997. Mr. Milton, a science journalist and noncreationist, reveals the circular reasoning Darwinists must rely on for their arguments while discussing data widely acknowledged in scientific circles.

• Tornado in a Junkyard. The Relentless Myth of Darwinism, James Perloff, 1999. A self-professed former atheist offers an easy-to-read view of evidence contradicting Darwinism, including many quotations from evolutionists and creationists. (The title is taken from a British astronomer's assessment that the likelihood of higher life forms emerging through random mutation is comparable to saying a tornado sweeping through a junkyard could build a Boeing 747 airliner.)

• The Case Against Darwin (Why the Evidence Should Be Examined), James Perloff, 2002. A readable 83-page condensation of the author’s 321-page Tornado in a Junkyard (see above).

• Not by Chance: Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution, Lee Spetner, Ph.D., Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1998. Dr. Spetner shows that one of the fundamental premises of neoDarwinism—that random mutation created the kinds of variations that allowed macroevolution to take place—is fatally flawed and could never have happened as Darwinists claim.

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Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important. C.S. Lewis



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Mom's car, but I won't let her drive it!

Bull****.

- Peter.

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thanks for all the info: I truly appreciate it. Never really thpught about how evo worked and this is a good tidbit of a start. By the asking why is the key elemnet to knowledfe nd problem solving. If we stop asking why we cease learning and that is not good. Then magic takes the place of reason.

Psssssttttt. The earth is round!!!!! And bald is still not a hair color.

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

sorry 'bout the spelling I'm on my phone

I'm familiar with a fair number of those books. All of the authors that I have read and heard speak are in fact, not motivated by objective scientific goals but instead by a need to justify their version of fundamentalist religion.
We could probably have an interesting discussion on whether progress in science depends upon objective motivations or not, but it is patently obvious that the writers in your list are interested in these topics because they think that mainstream evolutionary biology and geology disprove their incredibly narrow version of religion. Phillip Johnson took up these topics because he had a born again religious experience and Henry Morris holds to the most absurd ideas of numerology which he expounds in an appendix to one of his books.
It's probably worth noting that a Muslim fundamentalists are picking up ideas from US Christian creationists and passing them along to Middle Eastern Muslims.

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Seriously, please provide a link otherwise we *might* assume you plagiarized that entire post....

http://www.gnmagazine.org/issues/gn36/darwinism_evolution.htm


I stand by my first port in this thread

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