We can hope that the nitwit gene is one that is generation skipping.

The important lesson from school is not so much the transmission of "facts", which is somewhat secondary, but being given the tools and analytical skills to discern it for yourself, with the goal of advancing knowledge, not merely accepting that what is taught in school is all there is.

I went to a private religious k-8 school.

Our science teacher, albeit a nut in her own way, taught us all sorts of stuff when it came to science.

High school was even better. My teacher basically said you don't have to learn evolution since failing a test is optional

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-Typos courtesy of my mobile phone.

Something about myself as well as some included disclaimers:
I have earned a Bachelor's degree in science, specifically, biology as a major, and more specifically genetics, with a minor in chemistry and nearly a minor in philosophy. I am also less than 5 classes from earning a full degree specializing in philosophy at the college I was enrolled.
I am not "flaming" or "trolling" as I am not going to attack someone with ad-hominem arguments (and I have taken the logic course(s ) to know all sorts of logical fallacies, how to defeat them, how to use them, etc.). I may single out people, but only for specific statements of which I'll quote and/or paraphrase.
This is in the open discussion area of a Mercedes forum, so, I think talking about this such topic is well within bounds.
I am not as well read as perhaps I should be.
This post is not for the faint of heart, small of mind, or otherwise can't take a joke or extreme seriousness. And if you can't stand the latter, then you don't belong on the interwebs as THIS is serious business.
This may be a long post. I am a long winded philosopher who likes to reply to each and every point and discuss it to minute detail so as little misunderstanding occurs.

On with my post:
I shall begin with the beginning and work my way toward the end. I have read the entire thread, and so, will try to refrain from repeating what someone has said while still speaking my mind, my whole mind, and nothing but my mind (on this specific topic).
As far as their understanding of science compared to blind belief in creationism, the facebook-ee's of the original post are, IMHO, stupid. They believe without questioning. That is part of my personal definition of stupid. Is that an ad-hominem argument? Only if calling someone with an IQ of 40 a retard, in the medical sense, is also committing ad-hominem. That is to say, it is not. Props to LYL for bringing up one of my favorite deities. It's in the group with all the other ones I don't believe exist, but it's still one of my favorite non-existant beings. As far as these people acting like peasents? perhaps they are. Will they still potentially take our jobs? I'd have to say yes. Might these people who seem religious (for this reasoning, I am using definitions and statistics that, while I cannot quote verbatim or cite them or provide a link, they are still well known, perhaps even close to the point of common knowledge so as to not need citation... and if you @$$#%$ still want a citation? I refer to the fact I already EARNED MY DEGREE and am NO LONGER a #\/(l And to set the record as straight as I can without being too repetitive: Yes, humans did NOT evolve from apes. Apes, chimps, and other primates, evolved, as we did, from a common ancestor(s ) we all shared. How this came to be was through random mutations that lead to either beneficial or detrimental characteristics that were passed on to offspring as further differentiation occurred. If a genetic mutation is such that the baby will die in infancy? That lineage has just ended. If a lineage can survive to reproduce, but die soon after? That would be naturally selected for over the lineage that dies in infancy. Natural Selection, something that hasn't been mentioned directly. It is the natural tendency to select for specific traits. Tuskless Elephants are selected for as poachers don't give a frig for elephants without tusks, i.e. no ivory. So, they leave them to live. They then kill off elephants WITH tusks... That is a selection (perhaps not as natural as it could be) for the tuskless elephants and against the tusked ones. The peppered moths are another classic example of natural selection. Bacterial resistance is another. Do you want to see it in macro-organisms? well, normally large changes do NOT happen in short periods of time, but there ARE exceptions to that. Moths, elephants, etc. Cancer is ANOTHER genetic mutation and so far it has been detrimental, so, there is selection AGAINST those who contract cancer. What do I mean 'selection against' ? People with cancer often DIE and/or cannot reproduce AFTER contracting the mutation. So, there it is in a nutshell, and PLEASE, for the love of science, and maybe even your own 'danged' god, READ A BOOK! They are GREAT inventions. (Well, except for the ones that Jim brought up. ;p ) One can even read much on the internet once you LEARN how to distinguish adequate sources from inadequate ones.
Botnst has had the right idea through this thread from what I can tell, while Jake has not. Speak in an informed fashion and truthfully to try to get rid of ignorance. While it is nice to ask questions, Jake, I am assuming that, if the Tx means you're from Texas and given what I've seen of those from Texas, you already have PRE-Conceived answers... and most likely misconceptions of the pre-conceived type, too.
Yes, the stats of the state of our public schools is of great embarrassment. Why are we so "developed" but we have areas that look like any other third world nation? Why do we have such rampant religion that is uncharacteristic of 'developed nations' ? Why do we have such poverty? Why such levels of ignorance? etc... I can't answer these, but I hope they get resolved soon. I would ALSO hope that everyone has the potential to learn.
Yes, the state of our education system needs and overhaul, but tonight, I'm too tired to do it.
Evolution is NOT a force. It can't be studied, necessarily, as an active and fast moving... THING. It is the result of random mutations that lead to differences in traits that lead to natural and/or unnatural selection. How does a "jump the fence" maneuver occur? It usually DOESN'T. But it can happen. Why don't dogs talk? That's a fallacy of expecting domestication to also select for speech... First it would have to appear, THEN, you select for or against it. Though I will say, Mishka the talking husky, was entertaining and maybe the closest we'll ever get.
There was also been a person going for Ph. D. in geology who had ti revoked and removed as he had opened to use what knowledge he had to DISPROVE the scientific and empirical knowledge he'd gained.
Again, specific mutations to allow for this or that.. it would be rare and few and far between if at all. Spontaneous generations of limbs and thumbs within a lineage is not expected, but may still have the potential to be selected for, given the chance. Besides, like in fish fin, human hand, horse hoof, etc. etc. etc....... There are 5 appendages and/or bone structures within the cat paw, but one simply hasn't shifted enough to be called 'opposable'.
And to be honest Honus, I'd probably prefer monkeys as company compared to these guys on facebook, but that's just opinion and not a statement of whether they ARE or ARE NOT stupid. Like I said, I'm long winded, and in the endeavor to be postable and politically correct, I am also trying to exercise "tact."
Back to Jake. No. 'Monkeys' as we know them did not 'hop the fence.' They are not Mexican (as a whole) and we are not all American, though there may be arguments for certain people of certain nations falling more one way or the other, but I'll try not to digress. How long did it take for evolution to happen? a LONG time. Can we TRULY wrap our minds around it? I doubt it. We only live about a maximum of just over a century, so how can such a being contemplate millenia in their entirety. There is also potential evidence for 'gaps' in the evolutionary fossil record mean 'jumps' in the evolutionary scale. This could simply mean more random mutations happened, and we just happen to benefit from the ones we see. That is not to say there weren't also mass numbers of lineages dying. And that is ALSO not to say that the lost lineages were any more or less complex, advanced, etc. to what now exists. Evolution IS random, and when I say something is "selected for" well, it could end up being some adaptation or change that would otherwise be harmful, yet for the short term, and hence why it survives, it proves beneficial. This is the PERFECT time to bring up SICKLE CELL DISEASE/ANEMIA! It is something that deforms red blood cells, is genetic, is inheritable, and it caused ALOT of people to survive malaria that would kill off those with regularly shaped red blood cells... BUT, it also causes lots of issues with clotting, etc. etc. because the REST of the body isn't designed to accommodate sickle-shaped red blood cells. Tada! Evolution! That was within the past couple millenia at LEAST, and it is macro-evolution IN HUMANS! There you go Jake.

Now on to ANOTHEr hair-brained and common question brought to us by the other infamous speakers of which their title begins with a P. Priests, Prophets, Pastors, among others, that I consider synonymous. Why are monkeys still here? Listen up here, Niches. A niche is like a metaphorical notch that an organism may fit into. Monkeys found their niche. They eat bananas, fleas, fling poo, life is good for them. They've only further developed their aim, among other things. Our ancestors, when they saw the monkeys throwing feces, were like "Nuh Uh! Not for us" and picked up some rocks to bash together, or just bash each other with. (I will add another disclaimer. Much of this post is SARCASTIC, not all entirely LITERAL in meaning, so, please do not quote me on this unless you want to look like an idiot and/or make ME look like an idiot by misquoting me and leaving out this disclaimer.) For niches, in a literal description, I'll turn to Finches. Darwin's finches, to be more precise. They were, supposedly, one lineage that was fighting for food, the same food source. Hypothetically (as I do not remember the ACTUAL food source they may have fought for), we'll say they ALL fought for Sunflower Seeds. Sunflower seeds started to dwindle, so, a few of them were like... "Hmm, I wonder what a pumpkin seed tastes like. Oh HO! This is DAMN GOOD!" And so you had some eating pumpkin seeds now. Hmmm... But then that started to dwindle in food source availability, so, hmmmm... I wonder what this wiggly thing that's eating the other parts of the pumpkin is... Hmmm, oooh... it's kinda tasty too... Tada! You now had insectivores... Uh oh, my wiggly thing is crawling in that hole... uhhh... how do I get it out? Ok... Cactus spine, stick it in hole... pull out... OM NOM NOM! Wiggly Thing on a STICK! And thus corndogs were born.
Anyway, the point is that when one niche is crowded, it is either spread out and adapt, or die. The lineages that die, we no longer see. The lineages that spread out, adapted, and survived, we see as now DIFFERENT SPECIES OF BIRDS! The similar thing happened with monkeys and homo sapiens. They were together for a time, loved each other like their ancestor's did... it was a hill billy romance (and the start of HIV and AIDS later on, of course, but for now, let us go down memory lane)... they loved each other... they were one... they were the same... but then... they had to part ways... they grew apart... and now you have the Chimps, so angry at the past lost romance they throw poo at the humans.
Apes developed as they have because that fills the niche of theirs.
Also, on to one of my most HATED points. Evolution-ISM. The theory of evolution is not an ISM, like CatholicISM, MuslimISM, etc... We need to make a Schism from this stupid shizzle. It is NOT a "religious belife" it is empirical data put together to form a theory on how things came to be as they are. There is no stone tablets Darwin read this off of, there is no secret decoder ring passed around in circles of Bio grads (unless I haven't had my turn at it yet) that spells out the message of evolution-(STILL NOT AN)-ism. There is no 'great book'. There are only TEXT books... the type of things that if you read and UNDERSTAND them, make you smarter. Not just MEMORIZE them to pass the next exam that stupid biology teacher wants us to take.
LYL, please don't go making such euphemISMs as DNA = a light switch. You'll only confuse the poor man. But you do bring up a good point. Stuff happened to one genome, and different stuff happened to another genome. Maybe it's more like a dimmer switch? I just wish some of the DIMwits would turn theirs up a little. Ok, maybe that has some elements of trolling, but I still say I am not inciting a specific person with that statement.
Craig, in post #40 is on to the right track. Read his post over and over again, and there will be a quiz at the end of this thread for you to fill out. Or better yet, go read a BOOK to understand this all better as there ARE books designed for all sorts of reading levels and even special ones with LOTS of picshurz.
As for the bill in NM, the man is dabbling with more irony than a theatrical forgemaster. "I'm trying to prevent another Galileo." Wow, perhaps HE should throw a History book into HIS read pile. Or just let be bash a book over his head some.


And now a message from our poster: Books! They're GOOD for you! Tasty, Nutritious, TONS of fiber. Great BRAIN food, and good for bashing someone's brain in should the need arise.


And thank you, junky jim, for your passive aggressive attack upon us, the "evolution-(STILL NOT AN ISM)-ists". There isn't exactly FAITH in the tenets of this 'religion' so much as faith in logic. Empirical logic. Something EVERYONE has. Empirically, if the sun has risen in the morning for every day of your life, or every day you can remember, would you not compile that data in to the conclusion it will rise again the next morning? Or do you simply have faith that it will because god loves you and he knows that you like the sun warm on your face? Do you use a car? Do you expect when the mix of fuel and oxygen are ignited that it will provide energy for your car to run? If you think the car is a magical beast that god has let us tame as it was set down on this world and someone like Ford was just one of the first few to FIND it, then I think you need to go get a book, set it down on a table, sit a chair in front of the table in front of the book for you to site on, sit down no the chair, cock the pistol, and shoot your brains out. Make sure the safety isn't on.
And yes, there may be PLENTY of biologists who are also religious. If they then believe, like the man who got a geology degree to study the earth as it was tens to hundreds of thousands of years ago, that the earth is only about 6000 years old, I think they need to go get a book... set it down on a table... sit a chair in front of it....
And does anyone KNOW where the idea of 6000 years came from? It is because of some bishop who went over the bible, took the average lifespan of the man of that time, and then counted the generations, did some math (which may be the biggest surprise there) and came up with an approximation of the earth being 6000 years old. There are so many things wrong with that I don't know where to begin. And that is not to say there aren't OTHER theories that are still RELIGIOUS, but so much better than that, if not as good as, say, following ACTUAL EMPIRICAL KNOWLEDGE. Day-Age theory, etc. This focuses more on Genesis (and how it ISN'T scientific, but people try to make it be) so I'll jump back to evolution.
THERE WAS A POPE WHO BELIEVED THE THEORY! So while you may bring up biologists who do NOT (while ignoring the numbers of those that DO, and, as they say, ONE SWALLOW DOES NOT MAKE A SUMMER, but potentially a good blwoj-- I digress) believe the theory, here is one man, so religious that a GREAT portion of the WORLD believes he's like the next step below god, Jesus (which is god's son and still god anyway), and the 'holy ghost' (still god, but not "God" god, just holy ghost god), that also believes the theory is an adequate explanation of how life came to be as it is.
And on to "Evolution doesn't prove how the universe came to be." don't blame biologists. Evolution never CLAIMED as such. Talk to astrophysicists. If you can't pronounce that, good, work on that first, then copy and paste that word into google, and have yourself a good time. And one would have to go to BioChemists on how life may have come to be. Can we fully explain it? No. But don't go "AHA! SO YOU DO SAY IT WAS GOD!" No. did we think lightning and thunder was god? Yes. Do we still do so? I hope we don't, but, again, Given the REASON I am even making this post, well, there are those out there. And what those individuals need to do is grab a book... set it down on a table.... and you get the point. There IS no 'God of the gaps' (another thing for you guys to go google).
And David? I thank you for trying, but that isn't quite right. The need to survive is ever present, but not necessarily the force behind evolution.
As for WHY we humans have higher brain function? THAT is a question for a philosopher more than a biologist. This post is lengthy enough, and I'm trying to keep only one hat on. Perhaps we can do philosophy on another thread.

David, thank you for redeeming yourself from post 47 to 49.
I also want to thank Botnst for more of his input, but I think there may be too many big words still. And if someone can't understand all those big words? Guess what I think you need to do... Hint: it starts by grabbing a book... setting it on a table....
Now, Jim's list of books, though BLATANTLY plagiarized as a later post seemed to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt (unless someone is going to think that it was all a coincidence that Jim chose his keystrokes in almost the exact pattern of that other site, bullet points and all), I'll refer to the fact this is NOT a college course. So, fine, he brought it up. And it was not his own words. Whatever. I don't have time or patience to read and hen subsequently tear apart every book on that list, but whatever. Think me weak for that, go ahead. I dare you. And then I dare YOU to take one of those books, set it down on a table, set a chair in front of it, sit on the chair, pour gasoline all over yourself and the book, and then set the book on fire, and cock the pistol and shoot your brains out (dying by burning to death is so messy and painful, so, I am showing some mercy here). Thank you kerry for responding in kind as I will not at this time.
And Honus, while it is up there, if it is the height of arrogance? I dunno. I mean, there may be so many contenders for that position.
Now we're getting to the topic of semantics (another specialty of philosophers). I'll leave it be as plenty has been said about definitions of a theory, etc.
Anthonyb brings up niches, without using the word, niches.
And I think this may conclude my post. Thank you for reading. I hope you had a laugh, and found a book... And if you then set it on a table, sat a chair in front of it, etc... Why are you still here reading this?

(I nearly Doubled the allowed number of characters... Ooops... and so I had to split the post up some.)

tl; dr. You realize this is a car forum, right?

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

wow, rather long-winded. FWIW, I am not from Texas, and I did not have preconcieved notions or answers, but thanks for the not so subtle insult of my intelligence and the intelligence of the people of Texas. I asked questions based on things I wanted to know. I have no religiosity to speak of and I am not a believer in creationism, as your hint seems to infer. I do think, however, that many people who espouse evolution don't actually know what they are talking about, in a true scientific sense. I was spared taking much biology and such while in university, so I am truly ignorant of the true ins and outs of evolution, though I supposedly partially correctly guessed that evolution had nothing to do with tuskless elephants.

"I don't have time or patience to read and hen subsequently tear apart every book on that list, but whatever. Think me weak for that, go ahead. I dare you. And then I dare YOU to take one of those books, set it down on a table, set a chair in front of it, sit on the chair, pour gasoline all over yourself and the book, and then set the book on fire, and cock the pistol and shoot your brains out (dying by burning to death is so messy and painful, so, I am showing some mercy here)."

This is a truly bizarre statement and a rather harsh proposed punishment for challenging something:

Actually that is not entirely true. The fact that tuscless elephants are being selected for artificially (by human predation) rather than naturally by some other factor is in fact still evolution at play. In this case you may call it evolution by artificial selection rather than evolutoin by natural selection. Though I don't think thats entirely correct either as humans are a part of the natural world and our actions on it affect it just as any other animals actions can affect it. So from the elephants point of view is makes no difference what the semantics of the predatory lifeform are, the end results are the same.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

"Back to Jake. No. 'Monkeys' as we know them did not 'hop the fence.' They are not Mexican (as a whole) and we are not all American, though there may be arguments for certain people of certain nations falling more one way or the other, but I'll try not to digress."


step away from your bong.... you obviously have no idea what I said here, or maybe you just think that you are exceptionally clever... or maybe you are just a freakin racist

Should it not be "scientific law for the time being 'till we have some new questions answered"

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1979 Black on Black, 300CD (sold), 1990 Black 300SE, Silver 1989 Volvo 780, 1988 300CE (vanished by the hands of a girlfriend), 1992 300CE (Rescue).

"then I think you need to go get a book, set it down on a table, sit a chair in front of the table in front of the book for you to site on, sit down no the chair, cock the pistol, and shoot your brains out. Make sure the safety isn't on."


more odd, aggressive bull s%^t Let me get this right: if someone does not think or "know" as you do, they should kill themselves? Especially if they are religious? wow, going to be a big lonely world you'll live in when that happens. Here's a better idea: since you are obviously pretty far into rectal defilade, just push a little bit further up there and completely disappear. Though I am sure that you will say that this was a figure of speech, your rantings are no more rational than the bleatings of a medevial zealot calling for the burning of witches.

Being well educated doesn't necessarily mean one has all his marbles together. But I do believe he was speaking satirically in a intentionaly humorous way. I found it quite refreshing in an offbeat kinda way.

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Question Authority before it Questions you.

Henry Ford got the plans from God.

Anyway, it's hard to read your post. Sometimes it's easier to put a physical space in between paragraphs and keep those paragraphs shorter. It's a forum kinda thing.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

I also hate when people assume superiority on an anonymous internet forum because they have a college degree. Like we all bought Mercedes and are relatively successful because we all dropped out of high school and became ignorant to education .

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth