Why Can't Johhny Read? (in WI) - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 02-22-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

You're missing the point......what's it matter what the parents are doing when:

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

Why are the teachers even being paid for that performance??????

If I worked under you and I failed to perform, what can YOU do to motivate me?

If a student doesn't perform, what can an instructor do to motivate them?

Skid Row Joe · #32 02-22-2011, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If I worked under you and I failed to perform, what can YOU do to motivate me?

If a student doesn't perform, what can an instructor do to motivate them?

You'd be fired and replaced - yesterday.

Put the student in remedial class, notify your superior, and include this: "Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

The 2/3 of eight graders in WI. public schools that cannot read are Wisconsin's public school's problem. Let them figure it out. They're the ones being paid, and with their jobs on the line, or be fired - yesterday.

There is no shortage of replacement talent in America - for ANY JOB.

aklim · #33 02-22-2011, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

You'd be fired and replaced - yesterday.

Therein lies the problem. You can fire me because I am dead weight. However, only at college level can you "dump dead weight". Some colleges allow you to go on academic bankruptcy where you blow off 1 bad semester but screw it up again and you will NOT be allowed in. Kinda like you firing me.

Now, at this level, how does an instructor get rid of the "dead weight"? I know that in Singapore, they had an "Express" stream and "Normal" stream. fail and you get put into the "Normal" stream and your edumakashun kareer just went down the toilet. Here, in HS you cannot toss a student out for non-performance, can you? I mean expel them totally if they have say 3 bad semesters in a row. You want to readmit? Sure. Take a bunch of tests and see if you are equal to the task or not.

But say you toss them out on their ear. Now what? What is the consequence of that?

Skid Row Joe · #34 02-22-2011, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Therein lies the problem. You can fire me because I am dead weight. However, only at college level can you "dump dead weight". Some colleges allow you to go on academic bankruptcy where you blow off 1 bad semester but screw it up again and you will NOT be allowed in. Kinda like you firing me.

Now, at this level, how does an instructor get rid of the "dead weight"? I know that in Singapore, they had an "Express" stream and "Normal" stream. fail and you get put into the "Normal" stream and your edumakashun kareer just went down the toilet. Here, in HS you cannot toss a student out for non-performance, can you? I mean expel them totally if they have say 3 bad semesters in a row. You want to readmit? Sure. Take a bunch of tests and see if you are equal to the task or not.

But say you toss them out on their ear. Now what? What is the consequence of that?

Fire 'em!

BTW, I would never fire you aklim, you would simply go away because your pay would be performance-based.

Your salary would be $1.00 a year - and the remainder based on student performance. Get the picture? Perform!

Sink or swim - take your pick or find another job. Simple.

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

JamesDean · #35 02-22-2011, 05:19 PM

So motivating the student to learn is purely the teachers responsibility?

What role does the parent play in this endeavor?

Skid Row Joe · #36 02-22-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

So motivating the student to learn is purely the teachers responsibility?

Yeah - imagine that? That's their job. New concept to some, I know......

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

What role does the parent play in this endeavor?

Well, in Wisconsin, parents are delivering them to these public schools:
"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

aklim · #37 02-22-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Yeah - imagine that? That's their job. New concept to some, I know......

Fair enough. Now here comes the tough part. Are the parents willing to cede authority to the teachers to motivate them? Are they willing to say "Do whatever it takes to motivate Johnny"?

JamesDean · #38 02-22-2011, 05:39 PM

The role of motivating to learn should fall both on the parent and teacher. The parent must reinforce items learned in school by way of encouraging study habits and proper discipline. Learning to read should be accomplished well middle elementary school. When I was in kindergarten we were learning multiplication and division (albeit not on paper but with physical objects)

Some parents refuse to acknowledge a problem that exists with their child and blame the teacher instead. Example: Child performs poorly on tests/quizes...Child has not completing the homework assigned and has not put the necessary time into understanding the material assigned.

Is it the teachers duty to ensure the children do their homework?

Skid Row Joe · #39 02-22-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Fair enough. Now here comes the tough part. Are the parents willing to cede authority to the teachers to motivate them? Are they willing to say "Do whatever it takes to motivate Johnny"?

aklim, you want to fire the customer. The customer is your unpaid student.

You are paying teachers (employees) to perform, then when they do not, you are blaming the customer (student).

You need to change the responsibility here - because your company is going down the tubes/belly-up with your employees (teachers).

How does firing the customer helping you??!!

While you keep unproductive deadweight employees (teachers)???

First things first, deal with this first:

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

Skid Row Joe · #40 02-22-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

The role of motivating to learn should fall both on the parent and teacher. The parent must reinforce items learned in school by way of encouraging study habits and proper discipline. Learning to read should be accomplished well middle elementary school. When I was in kindergarten we were learning multiplication and division (albeit not on paper but with physical objects)

Some parents refuse to acknowledge a problem that exists with their child and blame the teacher instead. Example: Child performs poorly on tests/quizes...Child has not completing the homework assigned and has not put the necessary time into understanding the material assigned.

Is it the teachers duty to ensure the children do their homework?

You've got an identified, public school Wisconsin teacher problem. Deal with them.

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

pj67coll · #41 02-22-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

Yeah - imagine that? That's their job. New concept to some, I know......

No. It is the parents responsibility. The teachers do what the parents don't have the time for as they are (theoretically) out earning a living. However no amount of teaching will make up for moron parents who think dumping their mistakes at the busstop will suffice.

- Peter.

JamesDean · #42 02-22-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Fair enough. Now here comes the tough part. Are the parents willing to cede authority to the teachers to motivate them? Are they willing to say "Do whatever it takes to motivate Johnny"?

I think this has gone the way side as well. I recall stories from my parents about how they would get beat in school. My mother went to catholic school up until the 8th grade. She would tell stories of how the nuns would slap the kids with sticks less they did their work.

My father went to public school, he told stories of his high school years that, while beatings wern't involved, the PE teachers would embarrass the kids into performing the physical requirement tests they had established.

Both my parents went to the same high school (years apart) and both recall stories of the students sweating bullets over the PE teachers exams...from these account the kids usually worked themselves up to the challenge..

I can solidly say these motivational tactics would not fly in todays world.

Skid Row Joe · #43 02-22-2011, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

No. It is the parents responsibility. The teachers do what the parents don't have the time for as they are (theoretically) out earning a living. However no amount of teaching will make up for moron parents who think dumping their mistakes at the busstop will suffice.

- Peter.

So, answer why do these public schools exist?

Since you seem to think they have NO culpability.

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

Chas H · #44 02-22-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

good question. My mother was a life long school teacher. She was NOT a union member. She primarily taught at private schools, though she cut her teeth on public schools in New Orleans. Her mission was to teach children, not preach her specfic beliefs from her rather small bully pulpit. Reading, writing, arithmatic functions. Grow a mind that could reason, and not fill it full of bias and crap.

So why are whining about teachers? Because a Republican governor thinks he will balance the state budget when collective bargaining stops?
Are you posting from work?

JamesDean · #45 02-22-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe

You've got an identified, public school Wisconsin teacher problem. Deal with them.

"Two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin public schools cannot read proficiently according to the U.S. Department of Education, despite the fact that Wisconsin spends more per pupil in its public schools than any other state in the Midwest."

I'm not defending the teachers of Wisconsin or anything in the following statements. The amount of money spent per pupil has nothing to do with quality or level of education.

Quality of education can be derived from parents, teacher, environment, students desire to learn (which indirectly associated with all the previous).

"Spends more per pupil" I'm not defending their spending. Needs of a district vary from state to state. It is quite much higher than that of my local schools...

Here is the school I went to and a school in Madison:

Grade 8 Testing:
http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sl/sid=60106/midx=GradeG8

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=dl/did=1809/midx=GradeG8

Financial:
http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sl/sid=60106/midx=DistrictFinancialInfo

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=dl/did=1809/midx=SpendingRevenue

Now Heres another district local to me:
Youngstown...EVEN higher than Madison..

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=dl/did=5090/midx=GradeG8

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=dl/did=5090/midx=SpendingRevenue

I've been in the one high school they just finished building. They have rooms that (and I kid you not) completely padded and have no handles on the inside. Like the kind you'd see at an asylum...

http://www.schoolmatters.com/schools.aspx/q/page=sl/sid=58663/midx=DistrictFinancialInfo